The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Current Events
FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Current Events Help understand the world by talking about things happening in it

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-19-2013, 07:26 PM   #1
richlevy
King Of Wishful Thinking
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 6,669
Adak, only one story got told because only one person walked away. Let's say that Trayvon turned and noticed that Zimmerman had drawn a gun. Even without Stand Your Ground, it's not possible to outrun a bullet. So he closes and attempts to disarm Zimmerman, which might include tackling him into the concrete. It was never clear how Zimmerman could have gotten to his gun lying on his back. Unless he already had his gun already drawn. After all, isn't that what real cops do when approaching a dangerous suspect? So wouldn't a wannabe follow the same procedure?

If Zimmerman drew his weapon before being attacked, then "Stand Your Ground" was with Trayvon. Not that it would have done him any good if he'd been the sole survivor.
__________________
Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE!
I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama
richlevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2013, 07:50 PM   #2
Lamplighter
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods
Posts: 6,402
Quote:
3) Martin became aware of Zimmerman following him,
by the time he got back to his girl friends house.
He handed her the candy he'd bought at the local store,

and told her he was going "to fix that cracker", that was following him.
@Adak, this is a statement I have not heard before,
and have not been able to find via my Google searches.

What I have found are sequences of events that speak to phone calls
between Martin and his girl friend, both before and at the time of the shooting.

Name:  Martin_calls.jpg
Views: 319
Size:  72.0 KB

What I have also found is the following statement in this link,
and that agrees with what I had heard reported over the course of these events...

Quote:
At the time of his death, the teenager is unarmed and carrying a small amount of cash,
a bag of Skittles candy and a can of iced tea.
These seem to me to be significant enough to affect people's opinions about the jury finding.

Adak, Will you please document or cite a link
to support your statement that Martin actually arrived at his girl friend's home,
and then went back to "fix that cracker".
Lamplighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2013, 01:46 PM   #3
sexobon
I love it when a plan comes together.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by richlevy View Post
... Let's say that Trayvon turned and noticed that Zimmerman had drawn a gun. Even without Stand Your Ground, it's not possible to outrun a bullet. So he closes and attempts to disarm Zimmerman, ...
It's entirely possible to avoid being shot if you don't give someone a reason to shoot at you by closing on them. Police draw down on suspects all the time without shooting them. Even Martin would have known that. He would also have known that if Zimmerman wanted to shoot him at that time, there was opportunity to do it before he could react.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richlevy View Post
... It was never clear how Zimmerman could have gotten to his gun lying on his back. Unless he already had his gun already drawn. After all, isn't that what real cops do when approaching a dangerous suspect? So wouldn't a wannabe follow the same procedure? ...
If Zimmerman had been imitating police procedure by having his gun already drawn, he would have done so from a safe distance and shot at Martin when Martin closed on him before Martin reached him. That's what the police would do. I've not heard any claim that more than one shot was fired.

A plausible explanation would be a combat handgun technique called the rock back draw. It can be performed standing or as one is being taken down to the ground. The shooter uses one arm to push off from an assailant at point blank range, the shooter bending backwards at the waist, creating more distance for the other arm to draw and fire unimpeded from the waist. Zimmerman could have drawn his gun just before he hit the ground and then waited until he felt he couldn't recover before firing. Of course, this would've had to have happened without Martin realizing what Zimmerman was up to it since there doesn't seem to have been an ensuing struggle for the weapon between when it was drawn and when it was fired.

The more likely explanation is that Zimmerman was able to arch the small of his back or twist his body just enough to create a space to draw the gun. All it takes is a hand-on-gun thickness of space to free the gun and very little maneuvering to get it into firing position, especially when an assailant doesn't realize it's there. That Zimmerman was unable to better protect his head using both of his arms to block Martin's thrusts and blows indicates that Zimmerman may have been using one arm for retrieving the gun while he was on the ground and that Martin, concentrating on battering Zimmerman's head, simply didn't have a clue as to why he was having such an easy time of it until he was shot.

Hypothetically speaking of course.
sexobon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2013, 02:17 PM   #4
Lamplighter
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods
Posts: 6,402
Quote:
It's entirely possible to avoid being shot...
... just don't wear a hoodie.

All the rest is hypothetical. Right ?
Lamplighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2013, 09:15 PM   #5
sexobon
I love it when a plan comes together.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
... just don't wear a hoodie. ...
hoo .............. die?

Trayvon Martin is standing his ground, he's just doing it horizontally six feet under. The worms are standing their ground too, they think it's Thanksgiving because they got a turkey!
sexobon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2013, 10:05 AM   #6
Lamplighter
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods
Posts: 6,402
Lamplighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2013, 12:21 PM   #7
richlevy
King Of Wishful Thinking
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 6,669
Definitely lame .

I won't pretend Trayvon was a saint. My son certainly wasn't at his age. But nothing he did earned him the death penalty.

He's dead because an armed cop wannabe ignored advice and stalked him. What actually happened after that is open to question because only person walked away. I'm sure some people now take away the lesson from this case if that it's just the two of you, instead of wounding, shoot to kill and bang your head on the sidewalk a few times until the cops get there.

If there's a turkey in the story it's the pudgy sad loser playing T.J. Hooker.
__________________
Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE!
I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama
richlevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2013, 02:09 PM   #8
sexobon
I love it when a plan comes together.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by richlevy View Post
... He's dead because an armed cop wannabe ignored advice and stalked him. ...
He's dead because he was too stupid to live. He could have lived to fight another day ... AND WON. He chose not to. Bet he won't make that mistake again! How easily you advocate that kid having unnecessarily thrown his life away. Makes people go - Hmmmm?


Quote:
Originally Posted by richlevy View Post
... If there's a turkey in the story it's the pudgy sad loser playing T.J. Hooker.
Better a live turkey than a dead poster child.
sexobon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:44 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.