Afghanistan

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Sunday, I'm in sympathy with your thinking.
Two guys talk on the telephone, and Osama Bin Laden gets what he wanted all along...
<snip>

Closing all those embassies is looking more and more like LOSE/LOSE for U.S.


NY Times
ROBERT F. WORTH and ERIC SCHMITT
August 7, 2013

Caustic Light on White House’s Reaction to a Terrorist Threat

<snip>“God is great!
America is in a condition of terror and fear from Al Qaeda,”
wrote one jihadist in an online forum.
Another one rejoiced:
“The mobilization and security precautions are costing them billions of dollars.
We hope to hear more of such psychological warfare,
even if there are no actual jihadi operations on the ground.”

The jihadists are not the only ones who see the new terrorist alert in a caustic light. <snip>

Yemen’s government has worked closely with the United States on counterterrorism measures,
and American officials, who had a troubled relationship with Yemen’s former longtime president,
Ali Abdullah Saleh, have voiced confidence in Mr. Hadi and increased aid to the country.

“When you do evacuations, you signal that all the effort to build up trust in
the Yemeni security establishment amounts to nothing,” said one Yemeni official,
who spoke on condition of anonymity. “And all the development projects by U.S.A.I.D.
and its counterparts in Britain, Germany and elsewhere — everything stops.”

[xoxoxoBruce]

“And all the development projects by U.S.A.I.D.
and its counterparts in Britain, Germany and elsewhere — everything stops.”

Those projects cost us money, and are not for our benefit. If they can't keep their wackos under control, fuck 'em, they deserve to lose the aid.

[Lamplighter]

The government tells the world it had significant information that
warranted the closing of 19+ embassies over the past weekend.

Some reporter needs to ask what significant information they have
today that warranted the opening of 18 of those embassies ?
(The 19th is staying closed due to yet another threat.)

The end of Ramadan was cited as one part of their evaluations.
Was just the end of Ramadan sufficient to believe that the terrorists
would have to cancel their intentions on 18 of these embassies ?

Methinks "Snowden October Surprise" better describes the situation,
or was it a "Tail Wagging the Dog"


USA Today
Melanie Eversley
8/9/13

Eighteen of 19 U.S. embassies, consulates closed recently will reopen.

Eighteen of 19 of U.S. embassies and consulates across
the Middle East, Asia and Africa closed recently will reopen on Sunday,
State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki announced in a statement released Friday evening.

The U.S. embassy in Sanaa, Yemen, will remain closed, Psaki added,
because of continuing concerns about a threat for potential terrorist attacks by al Qaeda.

The U.S. consulate in Lahore, Pakistan, which shut down yesterday
do [sic] to a separate threat also will remain closed, Psaki announced in the statement.
<snip>

[xoxoxoBruce]

Who the fuck cares why they close or open embassies, except conspiracy theorists. The world keeps spinning around and there's a shitload of more important things to worry about.

[Lamplighter]

such as ?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

such as ?

NSA

[regular.joe]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Who the fuck cares why they close or open embassies, except conspiracy theorists. The world keeps spinning around and there's a shitload of more important things to worry about.

Because Embassies are an instrument of our national power and influence overseas. Wether we want to admit it or not we are an international player and how we conduct business, how we are perceived, what we do or don't do and why we do what we do are important. We can't be an isolated entity, even if we want to be.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by regular.joe

Because Embassies are an instrument of our national power and influence overseas. Wether we want to admit it or not we are an international player and how we conduct business, how we are perceived, what we do or don't do and why we do what we do are important. We can't be an isolated entity, even if we want to be.

That horseshit went out with sword fighting and knickers. Just because an embassy opens, or closes, doesn't mean it affects diplomatic communication with that country, for christ's sake. Yo, there's stuff in the sky that talks to places on the ground without pigeons.

Walmart opens and closes stores all the time.
Toyota opens and closes dealerships all the time.

[Griff]

Did you see where we cancelled Obama's one-to-one talks with Putin so we're having talks with Russia instead?

We do need to turn down our overseas operations. Our government is fully corrupted and we have to figure out how to reclaim it. Our fascist foreign policy is a big part of the problem, but Mussolini's influence goes far beyond that... If you are what you eat of late we've eaten fascists, communists, religious nutters, drug cartels, terrorists... We're all those things and more.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

The government tells the world it had significant information that warranted the closing of 19+ embassies over the past weekend.

Some reporter needs to ask what significant information they have today that warranted the opening of 18 of those embassies ? (The 19th is staying closed due to yet another threat.)

The end of Ramadan was cited as one part of their evaluations. Was just the end of Ramadan sufficient to believe that the terrorists would have to cancel their intentions on 18 of these embassies ?

Methinks "Snowden October Surprise" better describes the situation,
or was it a "Tail Wagging the Dog"

There may be multiple intentions but the official reasoning usually (but not always) makes more sense than conspiracy theories. We intercepted a teleconference of top-ranking Al Qaeda members discussing an attack within a certain time frame. After Benghazi, Obama does not want to risk losing lives overseas when they could be prevented. The Right would crush him for it. Therefore, due to the non-specific nature of the threat, Obama (over)reacted with a non-specific closure of 18 embassies for those span of days.

Originally Posted by Griff

We do need to turn down our overseas operations. Our government is fully corrupted and we have to figure out how to reclaim it. Our fascist foreign policy is a big part of the problem, but Mussolini's influence goes far beyond that... If you are what you eat of late we've eaten fascists, communists, religious nutters, drug cartels, terrorists... We're all those things and more.

We are not fascist. Foreign policy is always more pragmatic than domestic policy, meaning that national interests come before morals and ethics. There are definitely areas that can be improved - I do agree with scaling back our oversea presence - but shutting down our entire overseas operation would result in a massive backlash. Vacuums of power never end well. Just look at the Middle East.

[Griff]

You're obviously right but what exactly are we? I wouldn't call our foreign policy pragmatic as that implies a sensible balance.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

I wouldn't call our foreign policy pragmatic as that implies a sensible balance.

We are not the world's policemen. Only extremist rhetoric has a long history of making America the world's policemen - often with negative consequences. Syria, for example, is a problem for nations in that region. And the Arab Council. We have no dog in that fight. It could not be more pragmatic.

No true American would want to impose democracy on other nations. Only extremists believe in forcing democracy down other's throats. It also does not work. Democracy must be earned by the people of that nation. And if it means 10% casualties, well, that is what it takes.

People themselves must want the political solution. Outsiders cannot impose it. In Syria, not enough have yet died. They are not yet ready for that war to end. If outside support is required, it must come from nations that can justify such interest - Turkey, Saudis, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, etc. It is their responsibility - not ours. That is quite pragmatic.

[Griff]

Jeff Merkley, Ron Wyden, Mike Lee, Rand Paul: Senate odd bedfellows join on Afghanistan measure
Oregon Sen. Jeff Merkley has formed another left-right coalition aimed at keeping the pressure on the Obama administration to continue winding down U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan.


The Long Goodbye in Afghanistan
Yet last week the Obama administration announced that it had reached an agreement with Afghanistan on a long-term bilateral security arrangement that, officials say, would allow up to 12,000 mostly American troops to be in that country until 2024 and perhaps beyond — without Mr. Obama offering any serious accounting to the American people for maintaining a sizable military commitment there or offering a clue to when, if ever, it might conclude.