Obama Care vs Republicans

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Adak

You might go in for a flu shot, but your doctor is *Required* to ask about (and enter data about), your sex life.

Cite please. This reminds me of the arguments against the Equal Rights Amendment. "You don't want equal rights little lady, you could get drafted."

Originally Posted by Adak

Interesting that the House has grown enough spine to tackle this problem. In the past, they've rolled over with meaningless gestures of non-support/non-funding for Obama Care, which they knew would never even get to a vote in the Senate.

You mean that a minority of one chamber wants to blackmail the rest by holding the entire country hostage. That's like admiring someone wearing a suicide vest. You can't fault them for their commitment, but you should certainly deplore their tactics, values, common sense.........

[glatt]

Originally Posted by richlevy

You mean that a minority of one chamber wants to blackmail the rest by holding the entire country hostage...

I know a handful of federal government workers, and was just talking to one guy this weekend. Whenever there's a threatened government shutdown, it's difficult for them to do their jobs. This one guy works for a financial watchdog branch of the government, and was planning a work trip in October to go do some inspection of records at some place. He's spent the last two weeks preparing for the trip, putting the entire itinerary together and got about a dozen people to change their schedules around to be there for this inspection. (I don't know the details of what he was inspecting.) But he got a call from the OMB to cancel his plans. So that's two weeks of his planning work out the window, and various cancellation fees, and disruption caused in the lives of these other people who changed their plans to meet with him. And this place he was going to inspect is not going to be inspected now. People complain that the government wasn't keeping a close enough eye on the financial industry and that's what got us in this recession, and now they are going to shut down the federal government and do no inspections at all?

On top of that, on a personal level, he's a regular guy who is going to have the uncertainty of whether he's getting paid or not. I realize everyone else has uncertainty about their jobs, but it still sucks when that uncertainty is caused by idiots who are supposed to be running the place but are just playing a game of brinksmanship.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Adak

snip--

...previous warnings about Obama Care are moving from "Republican scare tactics" to reality, the act is moving slowly into the a more unfavorable rating with the public.

This will be a kicker:

You might go in for a flu shot, but your doctor is *Required* to ask about (and enter data about), your sex life.

Do you still remember when Privacy was something that actually existed?

--snip

so, this was your great big scary "reason" for opposing Obamacare. You were asked to provide a citation for such a claim, and you have not provided any kind of citation whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

[citation needed]

cite please

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Nope

debunking cite

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Nope

another debunking cite

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Those 58%, they are against O'care for privacy reasons?

another attempt to keep you honest and on topic--you have a demonstrated pattern of making outrageous claims like this, and while everybody's out dousing the fires of your inflammatory fictions with the cool waters of fact and reason as UT has done, hubcaps disappear. that ain't right.

Originally Posted by richlevy

Cite please. This reminds me of the arguments against the Equal Rights Amendment. "You don't want equal rights little lady, you could get drafted."

--snip

yet another request for your claim. Still you remain stoically silent on this point. Since you can't or won't provide the reason for your claim, I will. I suggest you, the radio dittoheads you listen to, and others as easily panicked are being stampeded by the Brothers Koch in these media misinformation public disservice spots.

Scaring the young women:




Scaring the young men:




There aren't any facts in the commercials, just BOOOOOO! RAAAAAAWR! I CAN SEE YOUR PRIVATES!!!!!! Just be afraid. I'm sick of this kind of attempt to persuade. I'm much more interested in facts, and you are not. That's the biggest reason why we clash here. You make a claim, I'm interested to hear why you support your claim, and it's all frightened bleating. If you want to convince me, you have to interest me. To interest me, you have to stop trying to scare me. So just... Stop It.

[Adak]

I repeated what was mentioned prominently, on the Roger Hedgecock talk show. Roger is a former Mayor of San Diego and lawyer, who knows a LOT about politics, and yes, he's a conservative.

He doesn't give citations for every single thing, (although he does give many). Sometimes he errs, and goes over-board. Sometimes on the road listening to him, and can't get the citations.

My dislike for Obama Care is rooted in the belief that the Federal Gov't should NOT be talking over our health care. I support a national health care plan, but make it run by the health care industry (overall, they've done a good job), instead of by the Feds.

If we increase the health insurers ability to compete (instead of restrict it by law), remove the "pre-existing conditions" rule, and keep the new 85% return to the customers law in place, I think we'll really have something good.

Along with some Tort reform, of course.

The other thing is that practically, you can't have Obama Care insinuating itself into the health care industry, without a substantial cost. You can say "OH NO, it will cut costs...", but that's bunk, and you know it. Before this is over, it will cost us a great deal of money.

If Obama would support drilling for oil and gas, then OK, we could afford to do this, if that's what we wanted. But right now? We don't have the $$$$ for it.

[glatt]

??? Because the oil and gas companies are going to pay for everyone's health care? Or is it just some sort of sense of negotiating? Obama allows a pipeline and the republicans will allow healthcare.

You can't get rid of the pre-exisiting conditions exclusion without having universal health care. Otherwise, people will just wait until they get sick and then sign up. It simply doesn't work.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by glatt

??? Because the oil and gas companies are going to pay for everyone's health care? Or is it just some sort of sense of negotiating? Obama allows a pipeline and the republicans will allow healthcare.

Because we can pay for things if we have more $$$. With more oil and gas, we (the nation), have a lot more $$$, and a lot less deficit. Norway largely funds it's socialized health care system, from it's North Sea oil wells.

You can't get rid of the pre-exisiting conditions exclusion without having universal health care. Otherwise, people will just wait until they get sick and then sign up. It simply doesn't work.

Please don't make me laugh so hard. We do this for all kinds of insurance. You have never worked in the insurance business have you? It's not as clean and simple as you seem to think it should be, but it's very doable; indeed, done every day.

You may have noticed that our economic recovery has been happening much slower than anyone predicted. Much slower than any of our recent depressions/recessions.

The biggest reason for that, is Barrack Obama's policies. At the same time he is spending like a drunken sailor, money we don't have, he's also put expensive and/or crippling requirements into place.

Top of the list, is refusing to allow any further gas and oil drilling, on any Federal land. He brags about how we're producing more gas and oil than ever, but that's ALL because he can't stop drilling on PRIVATE land. See, if you've been lied to, and the liar wasn't Barrack Obama or Bill Clinton, you haven't begun to get the very best lies just yet. Stay tuned for more!

Now the states have picked this up, and are passing laws to restrict drilling, even on private land where it was previously allowed. California is one of them.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Adak

Because we can pay for things if we have more $$$. With more oil and gas, we (the nation), have a lot more $$$, and a lot less deficit. Norway largely funds it's socialized health care system, from it's North Sea oil wells.

Which are also socialized.

Oil drilled in America won't be giving 62.5% of its dividends back to us (the nation). A little extra profit for ExxonMobil isn't going to help our deficit.

If our choice was despoil our environment, but get single-payer healthcare, that may be a debate. But if our choice is despoil our environment and hope to get trickled down on, there isn't.

[Adak]

I don't accept that insurance is "socialized". It spreads the risk and payments out, across the subscribers. Lloyds of London is NOT a socialist organization.

That's a lot different than "spreading the wealth", the way Obama has made it clear he wants to do. He makes it sound like he's not using the gov't to STEAL our money, which he certainly is. I have NO problem with medicare, because it's insurance. We pay into the system (usually, some have their own similar program), and when we need it, it's there.

Sure, payments and benefits are adjusted from time to time, but the idea is, it's something we contribute to, and can draw from, when we get ill. It's insurance.

In the Senate today, although the Senate Republican leaders have pulled the rug out from underneath them, Sen. Cruz, Lee, and a few others, are giving LONG (5 hours long, and growing), impassioned speeches on the Senate Floor, why Obama Care should be defunded.

Frankly, it's hopeless, imo, but I do dearly love the way Cruz, Lee, and the others, have stood up for what their voters have asked for.
Quite inspiring, every one of them.

Senator Cruz for President!