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Old 09-30-2014, 08:53 AM   #1
classicman
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No boots on the ground ...

Is anyone still believing that? Curious.
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Old 09-30-2014, 10:30 AM   #2
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Believing that it's what they are saying? Yes.
Believing that it's the actual plan? Sort of
Believing that it's how it's going to work out? Probably not.

I think that for any proposed military engagement, you need to have an exit strategy before you even begin. A plan for what victory is so you recognize it once you get there and can get out when the time is right. Bush clearly didn't have a solid plan when he started it all, and Obama campaigned on just getting us the hell out of there, so he did what he said he would do. But the job wasn't finished. I'm not sure it could ever be finished. It's an endless war. A nation building job that would require a generation or more of serious commitment.

We shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place. Sadam was an asshole, but he kept the religious nuts under control. We were better off with him in office. Just like we were better off with the Shah in office.

I'd like to see Obama articulate a clear plan with an exit strategy before we do anything other than drop bombs.
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:07 AM   #3
henry quirk
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Only reason to not put folks on the ground is because you intend to send wave after wave of planes to drop tons and tons of incendiaries and explosives in a sledgehammer approach (flatten, smash and burn EVERY-THING and ONE).

If one intends to be surgical then one ushers in troops with big honkin' guns and explosives (and air support) to flatten, smash, and burn only the selected things and ones.

What I'm not gettin': we will not put boots on the ground, we will not use the sledgehammer represented by air power, so, what exactly is supposed to be accomplished?

What is the definition of 'degrade and destroy' if it doesn't include flattening, smashing, and burning?
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Old 09-30-2014, 09:34 PM   #4
Griff
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Maybe the goal is to use $1 billion a month in ordnance... Arming everybody in this conflict seems to be working out well for some players.
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Old 09-30-2014, 10:32 PM   #5
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Maybe the goal is to use $1 billion a month in ordnance... Arming everybody in this conflict seems to be working out well for some players.
or........

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Old 09-30-2014, 10:40 PM   #6
sexobon
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No boots on the ground ...

They'll get around that by not calling them boots anymore. They'll call them LPCs (leather personnel carriers).
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:28 PM   #7
tw
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At this point, reasons for not deploying should be completely obvious. Did we not learn from Mission Accomplished, the Balkans, Desert Storm, Haiti, and Vietnam?

Middle East is first and foremost a problem that Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, and the Gulf States should be addressing. They - not the US - should have defined what is necessary and implement resulting plans. Otherwise we have another reduction in US living standards because extremists again want America to be the world's policemen.

Instead, Turkey and Saudi Arabia complain that America has not come to fix things. That - their attitude - should have resulted in massive condemnation by America's extremists. Instead, they attacked Obama since self serving political cheapshots are more important than America (Remember: Rush Limbaugh said we want America to fail).

Amazing how many extremists still want America to become a world's policemen - as if it does not harm American living standards. As if 'big dic' justifications rather than informed intelligence justifies a war.

And yes, even a responsible Israel should be working with those other nations to address THEIR problem. Unfortunately Israel is also dominated by brainwashed extremists who see enemies everywhere and have no interest in long term solutions.

I don't understand why this must be repeated for the upteenth time. What is required before going to war? glatt defined one critically important requirement.

1) A smoking gun must exist.
2) A strategic objective must be clearly defined.
3) An exit strategy defined by that strategic objective must be defined.

If any one does not exist, then no American troops should be deployed. Anyone who learned from history - especially Mission Accomplished - should know that automatically.

Some greatest victories exist because American troops were not deployed for combat. Balkans and Haiti are two classic examples that extremists routinely forget. Because no 'big dic' battles were necessary to have stunning victories.

This ISIS situation must get worse so that the 'powers that be' (regional nations) get off their masturbating asses, stop complaining that the US is not coming to their defense, spend massively in America for arms, send us their troops (with cash) for training, and start taking responsibility for their own regions.

We are finally doing what is necessary. Doing what "Project for a New American Century" was incapable of understanding. While providing support to nations we have obligations to support (ie airpower for Iraq). Our tremendously right headed action even got the stupid Afghanistan leadership to admit how ignorant they have been.

Hopefully Karzai et al will finally admit blunt lectures by Holbrook were spot on when it defined that leadership as naive and self destructive.

George Jr selected Maliki as his chosen Iraqi leader despite Americans in Iraq who said otherwise. So George Jr spent one or two hours every day teaching politics to Maliki. Nobody expected Iraq's Army to self destruct this fast. Nobody realized that Maliki was even more incompetent than what George Jr was told. Now that Iraq now longer has that leader, hopefully Iraq will recover and take back their nation. But again, best is to let the 'powers that be' fix this problem. Or suffer consequences because they expect diminished American living standards to save their asses.
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:16 AM   #8
classicman
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Y'all are aware there are already over 1000 PAIRS of boots on the ground already, right?
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:16 AM   #9
classicman
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tw - your nonsense is intentionally being ignored. You haven't offered anything new since Carter was in office and your skewed perception of reality and ignorance of facts that disagree with your personal ideology make every one of your posts pointless to read.
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:28 AM   #10
glatt
 
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Y'all are aware there are already over 1000 PAIRS of boots on the ground already, right?
Which ground are you talking about? Syria?
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:38 AM   #11
Undertoad
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feels like old times
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:08 AM   #12
classicman
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Which ground are you talking about? Syria?
Iraq ... for starters.
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Old 10-01-2014, 05:41 PM   #13
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feels like old times
Word.
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Old 10-01-2014, 06:44 PM   #14
Griff
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Good times. Interesting that tw has fallen for the intervention this time. Because Democrats, I guess.
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Old 10-01-2014, 06:47 PM   #15
infinite monkey
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This has to be done:

Boots on the ground
Boots on the ground
Lookin' like a fool witcha boots on the ground...
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