What is the ethical thing to do?

[chrisinhouston]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Ummm.... I wonder if a different title should be:
What is the mature thing to do ?

As I read the OP, I hear an older generation missing a cliche...
If you borrow something, you're responsible for it.
If you don't like that responsibility, don't borrow.

The younger seems to be saying the same thing, but from their POV
If someone doesn't want to fix my stuff, then they don't get to borrow it.

Also, among family members there may also be a financial POV...
Here, can the younger afford this repair bill as much as the elder ?
The usual family situation would be, No, they can't.

I don't quite agree and can't rely on cliches. As I said I would have no problem covering any repair that I caused to happen. I can hardly be found at fault for the failure of a seal on a water pump.

My main vehicle is a Land Rover which is a glitchy problem prone vehicle. Yet I would not expect anyone to pay for an internal engine part breaking if I loaned it to them because it is a wear and tear item. Hell, my car often breaks down even when I do treat it with care and do proactive maintenance! If I loaned out a car with bad tires and the tire blew causing the borrower harm one could argue that I am at fault for loaning out a car with bad tires. Yet a water pump is hardly a part you replace on a proactive basis. In my opinion no one is at fault. I think I would have felt better if my step son had approached it that way and suggested we split the repair cost.

As I mentioned, my step son and his wife make about double per year then my wife and I and while they have a large family are pretty flushed with cash. Paying over $1000 for them is not as big a hit as for me at this stage of my life and having to reduce my few investments.

I just don't see his response that I somehow caused this to be mature at all. Because I am mature I plan to pay for the repair. But is that the ethical thing to do? My title remains the same.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by chrisinhouston

... But is that the ethical thing to do? ...

Yes.

You're responsible for returning the vehicle in the same working condition it was in when you borrowed it. Your fault, their fault, no one's fault, in the absence of a specific loan agreement you're responsible. They've probably already put a lot of money into the vehicle maintaining it for their own use from which you benefitted. That should come at no additional cost to them in terms of money or convenience.

If the mileage you put on their car was the straw that broke the camel's back; but, the water pump failed the very next time one of them drove the car, you wouldn't be offering to pay for it ... not even half.

There was no quid pro quo regarding watching their children as you do that as much for the benefit of your relationship with the children as for the parents. Any work you did for the adults was pro bono as was them loaning you the car. They haven't been charging you a rental fee have they? It's a wash.

Considering the disparity between your incomes, it would have been magnanimous of them to pay for repairs even if it was just half. Perhaps they like you, but not that much.

If you're going to borrow cars, get your own towing insurance or join an auto club. They cover you in rental and borrowed vehicles. Trying to put any towing expense on the vehicle owners was low class. It added insult to injury.

Filling the tank and cleaning the vehicle was a nice gesture. Considering your relationship with them, the money would have been better spent being put towards a rental car. It may make the difference between being frugal and being cheap. The latter can come back to bite you in the wallet.

[chrisinhouston]

Thanks Sexobon for your reply, it was well thought out. I agree with some of your comments.

No they didn't charge me a rental fee but the sole reason I had asked to borrow there extra lesser used car was that I needed one that his grandmother could get into (aged 88). She, nor I have an extra $100+ to rent a car for a day just to get to 2 doctors appointments. I don't carry Comprehensive on my insurance so that is not an option to add it. I don't see how asking him if his insurance would pay for at least the second tow was out of place as he pays for that every time he sends in a check to the insurance company, there was no out of pocket expense. It would be stupid not to take advantage of something that is paid for and he had no problem with checking his policy and making the call to get the tow. I take offense at your describing me as low class and cheap. I live on a very tight budget but I am not cheap.

Yes, in the end I probably won't do less with the kiddos. I just got a Skype call from the 8 year old wanting to know if she and her sister can come over for a few days during spring break, maybe go to a movie. I said yes.

I think if I show less generosity it will be towards my step son. I feel blaming me for his water pump breaking while I used the vehicle is not fair. I can think of plenty of times I've picked up parts or supplies for a project on his house and never bothered to get reimbursed. Not because I forgot or lost the receipt but because it was a kind gesture on my part to help his family. I certainly don't feel any kindness coming from him right now.

Don't worry, I have learned my lesson. I won't be borrowing anything from him again. The funny thing is that I've loaned out tools and a few cameras in days past that malfunctioned or broke with no cause by the borrower and never asked for them to pay me for the repair. I chalked it up to a part just wearing out and was thankful that no one got injured.

[Gravdigr]

This is gonna sound strange coming from the old Gravdigr, but, I'd fix the car if I could afford it.

Don't know about future relations, though. I'd probably avoid him for a while, see if he maintains the 'tude.

This way, I'm the bigger guy, see. I don't borrow as a rule, but, I try to be responsible with other people's stuff. Even if Joe's shovel handle had a crack in it, if it broke while I was using it, I'd buy Joe another shovel.

But, If Joe pressed the attitude, Joe might get a broken shovel thrown at him.

[chrisinhouston]

Thanks Gravdigr for your comment.

Yes, I will fix it and I called the stealership this morning to give them my contact information. Then I stopped by my investment broker to initiate the sale of some funds from my beneficiary IRA which I can draw on with no penalties. I explained the scenario to both my broker and his office manager and they both shook their heads and commented that didn't think I was financially responsible and my step son was wrong to demand I do so. I no longer have credit cards that I can just whip out and charge the repair.

But I will pay to fix it because it is the bigger thing to do and I know that I am the bigger man and it will keep some family peace. And I don't want to do anything to jeopardize my close relationship with my grand kids, they are in no way involved so I won't hesitate to watch them or pick them up from school on rainy days or when they are sick. Letting them suffer from this would be as bad as parents who are divorcing and get the kids in the middle of it.

That being said, I doubt I will offer any help to my step son for awhile. I also don't think I will socialize with him, we typically do holiday dinners at there house and I won't be attending this Easter. My wife and I had a long talk about it and she pointed out that he is like his late father and his possessions are more important than anything. She used that old expression, "he'll cut off his nose to spite his face."