Guns urban vs urban? - Page 3

Urbane Guerrilla · 11-01-2006, 07:43 PM

Glatt is unfortunately (and ignorantly, alas, also) subscribing to the discredited theory of "the evil gun," that certain types of firearm are inherently more wicked than others. The ignorant and neurotic ravers against human self-defense use this as an entering wedge to help get the rest of us as helpless as they are. Anyone accepting this theory has been pwned like a big dog!

Disclosure time: in my callow youth, that was me.

This "theory of the evil gun" is exploded by the fact that the same compactness and concealability, and not least their lesser weight, that make pistols suited to committing felonies with, and with a maximum of discretion at least until the shooting starts, are the very same properties that facilitate active defense against committing pistol-armed felonies, by the fundamentally simple expedient of blowing holes in the felon. Which isn't remotely part of his plans for the day.

Crooks can't gag down being shot to death. If this is a universal prospect, they perforce stop being crooks, either under their own volition or because they are too dead to do anything other than cool down to ambient. Either outcome dramatically reduces crime and attendant wastage.

You can shoot a crook with a rifle, too. However, bearing a rifle around with you means you have to carry it in your hand which means you haven't got both hands on your work. A pistol, you simply wear. It's emergency equipment for a specific kind of emergency. Wearing it makes it available in even the most pressing and immediate kind of emergency.

Flint · 10-31-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

My family are from the country, where guns are just another tool (IE, a mechanical device with no implicit psychological characteristics). These "urban" associations with guns don't jibe with their "rural" function.

10-31-2006, 08:51 AM

But it does put a damper on the "debate", no?

Flint · 10-31-2006, 09:09 AM

Well, like I said: it should.

10-31-2006, 09:21 AM

True dat...

Aliantha · 11-01-2006, 07:46 PM

So do ordinary people walk around in the US wearing a pistol?

wolf · 11-02-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

So do ordinary people walk around in the US wearing a pistol?

Yep.

lookout123 · 11-05-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

So do ordinary people walk around in the US wearing a pistol?

In Phoenix, Arizona? Yes. That is yet another way we can spot those who don't belong here - if they stop and do a double take, or sometimes nudge their companion... time to send them back home.

Urbane Guerrilla · 11-01-2006, 08:01 PM

I'm not particularly extraordinary, and I've done that. Not often, but I've done that.

In the State of Vermont, anyone able to possess a gun can carry it concealed without a government permit of any kind. The one rule Vermont has about this practice is that thou shalt not do it in furtherance of any criminal activity. This is a tremendous improvement over the assumption that CCW is itself a crime, as is the attitude in Washington DC, New York City, and the State of Illinois.

And we know all about thousands of Vermonters killed in shootouts every month, don't we?

Very ordinary jewelers carry concealed pistols in their shops, as do pawnbrokers. Even pizza delivery men who'd previously been robbed in nasty neighborhoods -- petty theft can sometimes stoop to new depths of pettiness. This has saved innocent lives, and owing to the modest hitting power of pistol cartridges, doesn't necessarily take the perpetrators'. A rifle bullet is more likely to kill.

Aliantha · 11-01-2006, 08:03 PM

rifles are designed to kill things

Urbane Guerrilla · 11-01-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Rifles are designed to kill things.

A stone axe will do a good job of that too.

PeTA will tell you it's immoral to kill animals. Those people never took enough biology to know that all life springs from death, from dissolution. Even plants kill insects: the caffeine in a coffee bean, the cocaine in the coca leaf, and the capsicum in a chile pepper: all these compounds mess bugs up something fierce, generally by hitting them with a dose of something that wrecks their nervous systems. The dosages of these insecticides are too small to do more than stimulate the systems of large mammals like us.

You live, and not starve to death, because you kill stuff and eat it. Plant or animal, to fuel your life, it dies and is disincorporated.

That mindset is hardly unique to Vermont. It's generally prevalent in every State containing about Vermont's population: the Dakotas, Wyoming, Nevada, Oregon -- all kinds of places whose murder rate is about 2 per 100K persons/year, a rate closely comparable to England's, in places far more generally heavily armed. Other crime is similarly infrequent. The general rule is that counties that are not entirely swallowed up by cities have low rates of murder and other crime, with murders as an example in the range of 2-3/100K/year.

wolf · 11-02-2006, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

rifles are designed to kill things

Interestingly, cars, ball peen hammers, and chainsaws* aren't designed to kill things, but often do anyway ... but never on their own. They don't just leap up and randomly massacre folks. Neither do rifles. Or handguns.

Okay, so maybe chainsaws* do on occasion, I may have picked a bad example)

Aliantha · 11-02-2006, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

Interestingly, cars, ball peen hammers, and chainsaws* aren't designed to kill things, but often do anyway ... but never on their own. They don't just leap up and randomly massacre folks. Neither do rifles. Or handguns.

Okay, so maybe chainsaws* do on occasion, I may have picked a bad example)

As Flint pointed out, guns were developed to kill things. That's the history of them. None of the other things mentioned were developed specifically for killing things and other than cars I'd suggest to you that 'often' is probably quite an exaggeration.

As most of the other 'anti-gun' posters have also mentioned, I don't percieve guns as being evil. I, like most of the other posters here recognize that they don't kill anything by themselves, but thanks for pointing that out for us.

There is no point to your argument. It's only a rationalisation.

Ibby · 11-01-2006, 08:05 PM

Ignoring him for a moment, the answer is no.

However, he, for once, raises decent points. For certain people in certain circumstances, its a wonderful idea.

And Vermonters have a certain... mindset that helps prevent violence. I have never met a vermonter who was anything but chill, mellow, and cool.

Spexxvet · 11-02-2006, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram

...However, he, for once, raises decent points...

Wait a minute. You actually read UG posts?

11-01-2006, 07:43 PM	#1
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Glatt is unfortunately (and ignorantly, alas, also) subscribing to the discredited theory of "the evil gun," that certain types of firearm are inherently more wicked than others. The ignorant and neurotic ravers against human self-defense use this as an entering wedge to help get the rest of us as helpless as they are. Anyone accepting this theory has been pwned like a big dog! Disclosure time: in my callow youth, that was me. This "theory of the evil gun" is exploded by the fact that the same compactness and concealability, and not least their lesser weight, that make pistols suited to committing felonies with, and with a maximum of discretion at least until the shooting starts, are the very same properties that facilitate active defense against committing pistol-armed felonies, by the fundamentally simple expedient of blowing holes in the felon. Which isn't remotely part of his plans for the day. Crooks can't gag down being shot to death. If this is a universal prospect, they perforce stop being crooks, either under their own volition or because they are too dead to do anything other than cool down to ambient. Either outcome dramatically reduces crime and attendant wastage. You can shoot a crook with a rifle, too. However, bearing a rifle around with you means you have to carry it in your hand which means you haven't got both hands on your work. A pistol, you simply wear. It's emergency equipment for a specific kind of emergency. Wearing it makes it available in even the most pressing and immediate kind of emergency. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 11-01-2006 at 07:47 PM.

10-31-2006, 09:09 AM	#4
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Well, like I said: it should. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

11-01-2006, 07:46 PM	#6
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	So do ordinary people walk around in the US wearing a pistol? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-01-2006, 08:01 PM	#9
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	I'm not particularly extraordinary, and I've done that. Not often, but I've done that. In the State of Vermont, anyone able to possess a gun can carry it concealed without a government permit of any kind. The one rule Vermont has about this practice is that thou shalt not do it in furtherance of any criminal activity. This is a tremendous improvement over the assumption that CCW is itself a crime, as is the attitude in Washington DC, New York City, and the State of Illinois. And we know all about thousands of Vermonters killed in shootouts every month, don't we? Very ordinary jewelers carry concealed pistols in their shops, as do pawnbrokers. Even pizza delivery men who'd previously been robbed in nasty neighborhoods -- petty theft can sometimes stoop to new depths of pettiness. This has saved innocent lives, and owing to the modest hitting power of pistol cartridges, doesn't necessarily take the perpetrators'. A rifle bullet is more likely to kill. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

11-01-2006, 08:03 PM	#10
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	rifles are designed to kill things __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-31-2006, 08:51 AM	#3
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	But it does put a damper on the "debate", no?

10-31-2006, 09:21 AM	#5
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	True dat...

11-01-2006, 08:05 PM	#14
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Ignoring him for a moment, the answer is no. However, he, for once, raises decent points. For certain people in certain circumstances, its a wonderful idea. And Vermonters have a certain... mindset that helps prevent violence. I have never met a vermonter who was anything but chill, mellow, and cool. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)