A Town Willing To Enforce The Law

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

How many languages are going to be on those sign?

I'd say two: English and Spanish. They're the most prevalent languages in our country right now.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

How many piles of instructions at the IRS? Or the Post Office? Motor Vehicle Department? Hospital? Menus?

My workplace has all the legally required signs in both English and Spanish. Its not that big of a deal. But, IRS forms? That'd be crazy! Think of the hell it would be if they had to put IRS information in Spanish-- oh, wait, here it is.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Chinese? Portuguese (which is as common as Spanish in the Americas)? French? Italian? Hindi? German?

If you fly into Hartsfield International Airport in Atlanta, you'll notice that the digital signs on the tram scroll through at least eight languages, including the ones you've listed as well as Japanese and Korean. This change, made during the 1996 Olympic games, probably isn't entirely needed, but is helpful to people navigating the airport. Another major international destination, Disney World, has a monorail that makes announcements in English and Spanish, as studies done by Disney show that guests to the park that speak other languages are highly likely to also speak English as a second language. Spanish was the only exception, statistically, so it made sense to provide two announcements. No chaos broke out from either of these changes.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The world doesn't work that way, when you look at the realities of execution. When you start putting up the poles and painting signs people can read without stopping in the middle of the road.

Admittedly, I had trouble "inspection", but road signs in Mexico aren't that difficult for non-Spanish speakers. I probably wouldn't speed through the red octagon marked 'ALTO' so, somehow, I don't think most English road signs are much more difficult for Spanish speakers in the US.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

When you have to take the neighbors house by eminent domain, just to house the piles of instructions.

Agreed -- we can't translate everything into every language in the world. Now, what happens in our future when a US city/county/state becomes so populated with Spanish speakers that English becomes the minority? (For some cities and counties, I'm sure this already applies.) Will your suggestions still follow and will the dual signs come down in favor of Spanish only instructions? How would you feel navigating without the aid of English signs in one of these cities/states? Luckily, you won't be forced to learn Spanish, but...

Whatever our governments do, I'm strongly suggesting no one remove the required sign that reads "Lavarse Las Manos!" from any of the restaurants I dine in.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

I'd say two: English and Spanish. They're the most prevalent languages in our country right now.

Would that stand up to constitutional scrutiny?

My workplace has all the legally required signs in both English and Spanish. Its not that big of a deal. But, IRS forms? That'd be crazy! Think of the hell it would be if they had to put IRS information in Spanish-- oh, wait, here it is.

That's not right, shouldn't be a legal requirement. If a business wants to go to the trouble and expense as a business decision, fine. Go for it. If I don't want to pay for it I can take my business elsewhere.

If you fly into Hartsfield International Airport in Atlanta, you'll notice that the digital signs on the tram scroll through at least eight languages, including the ones you've listed as well as Japanese and Korean. This change, made during the 1996 Olympic games, probably isn't entirely needed, but is helpful to people navigating the airport. Another major international destination, Disney World, has a monorail that makes announcements in English and Spanish, as studies done by Disney show that guests to the park that speak other languages are highly likely to also speak English as a second language. Spanish was the only exception, statistically, so it made sense to provide two announcements. No chaos broke out from either of these changes.

Business decisions, fine.

Admittedly, I had trouble "inspection", but road signs in Mexico aren't that difficult for non-Spanish speakers. I probably wouldn't speed through the red octagon marked 'ALTO' so, somehow, I don't think most English road signs are much more difficult for Spanish speakers in the US.

I wasn't worried about traffic control signs, the international signs are pretty clear. I'm concerned with the signs like accident ahead, next gas 28 miles, and Slaussen cutoff. How about, " No stopping or standing 3 pm to 6:30 pm on weekdays, and Saturdays, during school year, except holidays." OK, that's not a real common sign, I admit.
But my problem is the people who think it's a yard sale sign and stop in the middle of the road to look around, get out a map, and/or argue about what it says. Two language signs have to be twice as big or reduce the lettering by half. That makes it more confusing, so they slow down more and make mistakes that can turn deadly when they realize it and try to recover with an outrageous maneuver. I've seen it too many times with just English signs and more so in Canada..... or maybe that was me?

Agreed -- we can't translate everything into every language in the world. Now, what happens in our future when a US city/county/state becomes so populated with Spanish speakers that English becomes the minority? (For some cities and counties, I'm sure this already applies.) Will your suggestions still follow and will the dual signs come down in favor of Spanish only instructions? How would you feel navigating without the aid of English signs in one of these cities/states? Luckily, you won't be forced to learn Spanish, but...

That wouldn't be a problem if they weren't doing what they are doing now, now would it? There is no reason for a kid born in this country not to read, write and speak English. Go ahead, ask about the ones that aren't, go ahead.

Whatever our governments do, I'm strongly suggesting no one remove the required sign that reads "Lavarse Las Manos!" from any of the restaurants I dine in.

No comprendi.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

That's not right, shouldn't be a legal requirement. If a business wants to go to the trouble and expense as a business decision, fine. Go for it. If I don't want to pay for it I can take my business elsewhere.

The signs are government required and in some cases are produced by the government. "Wash your hands. Lavarse las manos." You'll see this one in any workplace that deals with food. Minimum wage and disability signs are all dual language. It is common sense to provide your taxpayers with information they can understand.

The forcing of private businesses to have signs in a specific language can get tricky. In Gwinnett County, GA, the issue came up some years ago because emergencies at some Asian businesses couldn't be responded to since emergency workers were unable to read the signs along crowded highways populated by international businesses and restaurants. The measure to have all private business signs have readable English as well as the Asian characters was defeated. You might not agree these businesses should be forced to have dual language signs, but there is a public safety factor involved.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

But my problem is the people who think it's a yard sale sign and stop in the middle of the road to look around, get out a map, and/or argue about what it says.

Confusing street signs for yard sale signs? Stopping in the middle of the road to argue? This sounds more like bad driving habits than anything language-related.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Two language signs have to be twice as big or reduce the lettering by half.

City/county/state/federal signs all have regulations on lettering size for visibility reasons, so this simply isn't an issue.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

That makes it more confusing, so they slow down more and make mistakes that can turn deadly when they realize it and try to recover with an outrageous maneuver.

...so, you want to clear up confusion about what signs mean by making them unreadable by a significant percentage of the population? In many other countries, the signs are in two languages and I've not heard of any traffic issues related to that aspect. Important signs are usually simple, internationally understood symbols. Everything else, not a big deal.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

There is no reason for a kid born in this country not to read, write and speak English. Go ahead, ask about the ones that aren't, go ahead.

We're talking about Spanish speakers, right?

But, alright, I will ask about them. What of the children that grow up surrounded by families that don't speak English? What of the children that grow up in a community that doesn't speak English and interact with businesses that speak only Spanish? Have you ever sat in on an ESOL class and spoken with the kids that come out of it?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No comprendi.

"No comprendo."

I understand the need for clear communication between people, but it can't be forced, especially in many communities across the country. Passing a law that makes English the standard language and removes Spanish from documents and signs is simply going to put people in the dark. You might think isolating groups of people like that would force them to learn English, but the effect is exactly the opposite.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ibram

I said english signs for simplicity, panligualism on demand for all other government functions.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

How many languages are going to be on those sign?

One?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yeah you got me, HM. But you know as well as I do, that won't last.
To clarify, "that" refers to one language signs.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

It's not bigoted to make the country function like a country instead of like the ineffectual UN. Start thinking beyond a hypothetical situation, a classroom exercise in what would be desirable in a perfect world.

The UN should really work on creating a new language, and no, not Esperanto or whatever that was called. We need something simple that everyone can learn easily.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The UN should really work on creating a new language, and no, not Esperanto or whatever that was called. We need something simple that everyone can learn easily.

The UN should move to Africa where I'm sure they would bring some improvement if they had to live and work there.

[Toymented]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The UN should really work on creating a new language, and no, not Esperanto or whatever that was called. We need something simple that everyone can learn easily.

'
Genesis 11:6 comes to mind.

Would there be a benefit? Even with all speaking the same technical language, do we really understand or care to understand one another?

[Ibby]

Bruce, as long as I'm not allowed to vote, and dont have to pay taxes, I can be as unrealistic and utopian as I wish. Thats the great thing about being outside the system; you arent bound by it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

True, but best to understand it before getting there, because it will crush you in a most painful way if you don't know how, or when,to play it.

Yes it matters and is what we should be doing, enforcing the law.

[rigcranop]

I'd say two: English and Spanish. They're the most prevalent languages in our country right now.

Is spanish a most prevalent language because of legal or illegal immigration? I don't know but it would be interesting to see some figures.

[rigcranop]

My point about about english in industry jobs was about safety issues and being able to communicate with other workers who do not speak english. In an emergency situation, they cannot be warned of a toxic spill, chemical fume release or some other situation that requires them to leave the area quickly. In the event of one of those situations, I won't hang around to get the idea across. I have no inclination to be a hero. And if serious injuries or deaths occur to the "refusers" that can impact MY employment.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxobruce

No, I want to clear up the confusion by not issuing licenses to people that can't read the goddamn signs or rules.

I agree with this. Whether or not you can read or speak English doesn't bother me usually but once you get into a car you are putting everyone else in danger if you cannot read the signs. This doesn't mean to have to be fluent, just that you can read the signs (for example, having dead end on a stop sign and knowing that it says dead end).

Originally Posted by toymented

Would there be a benefit? Even with all speaking the same technical language, do we really understand or care to understand one another?

Yes, it would save over a million dollars (or billion, I forget which one) a year for the UN and it will make discussions a lot easier to understand and we won't misinterpret each other. It will make things go a lot smoother even if we choose not to look from their viewpoints.

The language would also be good for civilians too. I won't have to worry about learning a native language if I travel when I can just speak an international language. We are already connected as a planet, we should have an international language as well.

[Toymented]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Yes, it would save over a million dollars (or billion, I forget which one) a year for the UN and it will make discussions a lot easier to understand and we won't misinterpret each other. It will make things go a lot smoother even if we choose not to look from their viewpoints.

The language would also be good for civilians too. I won't have to worry about learning a native language if I travel when I can just speak an international language. We are already connected as a planet, we should have an international language as well.

I'm certain God would not allow it. Genesis 11:7-9.