Al-Qaeda seeks to expand its operations

[duck_duck]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Sort through this. A timeline of US intervention in other countries since 1945.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Bl...ns_WBlumZ.html

Edit- This is at 1999 so it won't have post 9/11 interventions.

Some of the language used in that articles suggests a bit of biased from the author. So I wonder how much of it is true or embellished.

[Ibby]

Libya, 1981-89:
Libya refused to be a proper Middle East client state of Washington. Its leader, Muammar el-Qaddafi, was uppity. He would have to be punished. U.S. planes shot down two Libyan planes in what Libya regarded as its air space. The U. S . also dropped bombs on the country, killing at least 40 people, including Qaddafi's daughter. There were other attempts to assassinate the man, operations to overthrow him, a major disinformation campaign, economic sanctions, and blaming Libya for being behind the Pan Am 103 bombing without any good evidence.

Afghanistan, 1979-92:
Everyone knows of the unbelievable repression of women in Afghanistan, carried out by Islamic fundamentalists, even before the Taliban. But how many people know that during the late 1970s and most of the 1980s, Afghanistan had a government committed to bringing the incredibly backward nation into the 20th century, including giving women equal rights? What happened, however, is that the United States poured billions of dollars into waging a terrible war against this government, simply because it was supported by the Soviet Union. Prior to this, CIA operations had knowingly increased the probability of a Soviet intervention, which is what occurred. In the end, the United States won, and the women, and the rest of Afghanistan, lost. More than a million dead, three million disabled, five million refugees, in total about half the population.

And there have been US troops stationed in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, all over the place for a long time. If you ask Al-Qaeda, they arent invited guests - theyre invading occupiers taking their hospitality at gunpoint.

[Ibby]

The intention of the author is obviously anti-american -- but the facts are all straight. This author doesnt love america -- because of the very facts that he tells here.

[duck_duck]

Like I said before I doubt the authenticity of that site because the author is obviously has issue with the americans. I really love the part where he says the americans were shooting down libya planes and blaming terrorists acts on him because the was "uppity" lol

And any american troops that are in saudia arabia, pakistan or egypt are there because those governments allowed them to be there. Just because a terrorist organization like al qaeda says the americans forced themselves there doesn't make it true.

[Ibby]

So you deny that America prettymuch does what they want and tells these countries to give them free reign to live, fight, and train there?

[duck_duck]

Yes I do because I haven't seen anything yet that proves otherwise.

[Undertoad]

bin Laden was offended by the slow decline of Arabic civilization, particularly in Saudi Arabia, and felt that the only road to fixing that would be to implement sharia law and the hardest of hard line pure Islamism.

You may recognize the "ugly foreigners are the cause of all our problems" concept. It's taken up by such groups as the National Front, and here in the US by the KKK, and by morons everywhere around the world.

But why attack? When the US withdrew from Lebanon and Somalia, they gave hardass Islamists a roadmap to getting the US out of Saudi Arabia: just hit 'em hard, and they'll fold like paper tigers.

bin Laden said so quite directly, in his 1996 fatwa:

But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order- you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge , but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear. It was a pleasure for the "heart" of every Muslim and a remedy to the "chests" of believing nations to see you defeated in the three Islamic cities of Beirut , Aden and Mogadishu.

This, in turn, is why it's now vitally important for Iraq not to be seen as a US defeat.

[piercehawkeye45]

In 1978 the PDPA seized power from Daoud in a military coup. After seizing power they began a series of limited reforms, such as declaring, more or less, a secular state, and that women were deserving of equal treatment of men. They sought to curtail the practice of purchasing brides, and tried to implement a land reform program. They quickly met with fierce opposition from many sections of the deeply religious population though. The PDPA’s response to this was very heavy-handed, aggravating the situation. Soon several rural areas rose in open armed rebellion against the new government.

http://afghangovernment.com/briefhistory.htm

I'm not going to search for American intervention in Afghanistan because it is pretty common knowledge. Just because something is bias doesn't mean that the facts don't check out.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Ibram

The intention of the author is obviously anti-american -- but the facts are all straight. This author doesnt love america -- because of the very facts that he tells here.

His facts are not facts. They are riddled with opinion. I don't think you like this country either.

[TheMercenary]

"The engine of American foreign policy has been fueled not by a devotion to any kind of morality, but rather by the necessity to serve other imperatives, which can be summarized as follows:
* making the world safe for American corporations;
* enhancing the financial statements of defense contractors at home who have contributed generously to members of congress;
* preventing the rise of any society that might serve as a successful example of an alternative to the capitalist model;
* extending political and economic hegemony over as wide an area as possible, as befits a "great power."
This in the name of fighting a supposed moral crusade against what cold warriors convinced themselves, and the American people, was the existence of an evil International Communist Conspiracy, which in fact never existed, evil or not."

These initial statement are so littered with anti-American opinion they could have come from a site like anti-war.com.

"Blum founded Washington Free Press and is the author of a monthly newsletter titled "The Anti-Empire Report."

In January 2006, Osama bin Laden released an audio tape threatening the U.S. and quoting William Blum while recommending that Americans read Blum's Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower. This 'free advertisement' caused a huge increase in sales of "Rogue State.""

I bet he was proud to be quoted by his friend Osama.

[piercehawkeye45]

Just because Osama recommended The Rogue State shouldn't mean anything to Blum or his credibility.

Those quotes you gave, they are biased against America but that doesn’t mean they are false. You have to look at the base of capitalism. The whole point of capitalism is to make as much money as possible and there is no room for morals. Why is it so hard to believe that our rulers would attack a country so our companies can make more money? I am not proposing NWO or anything like that but those quotes work perfectly with capitalism.

Right now we are getting edgy with Venezuela and they are starting to get back on there feet without the use of capitalism.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Just because Osama recommended The Rogue State shouldn't mean anything to Blum or his credibility.

Those quotes you gave, they are biased against America but that doesn’t mean they are false. You have to look at the base of capitalism. The whole point of capitalism is to make as much money as possible and there is no room for morals. Why is it so hard to believe that our rulers would attack a country so our companies can make more money? I am not proposing NWO or anything like that but those quotes work perfectly with capitalism.

Right now we are getting edgy with Venezuela and they are starting to get back on there feet without the use of capitalism.

And that is the problem with them. These quotes fall into a quasi-conspiracy theory mode. The person capitalizing on capitalism is the author. Blum made a history of himself by writing expose's a long time ago. He is well known for his sensationalism and he is an expert at blending hard facts with enough conjecture to make what he writes sound perfectly believable to those who are already of the mindset to be fed off of the hype. I have read a number of places where some of his expose's lead directly to the death of CIA agents.

[duck_duck]

Capitalism is the most successful system ever devised. The whole point of capitalism is economic freedom but like any system invented by people it can be abused. I'm not sure I buy into the conspiracy theories that americans invade nations for the sole purpose of corporate gain.

[DanaC]

His facts are not facts. They are riddled with opinion. I don't think you like this country either.

Yeah, cause if you can look at your country's history and spot where it has acted aggressively, immorally, selfishly or ineffectively you clearly dont like your country. If you can read through propoganda against your country and separate facts from extraneous opinions, then you don't like your country.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Yeah, cause if you can look at your country's history and spot where it has acted aggressively, immorally, selfishly or ineffectively you clearly dont like your country. If you can read through propoganda against your country and separate facts from extraneous opinions, then you don't like your country.

I can do all of those things and I still love this country....