Teacher Fired: Said Bible Is Not Literal - Page 3

10-07-2007, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Actually I was taught Norse myths, Greek and Roman - and Christian (religion, because it's still practised today) on the basis that - as Cloud says - it helps with an understanding of literature.

I taught myself the basics of the Egyptian pantheon before I went there because I knew it would make my trip more interesting - as there aren't any major works available in hieroglypics so I hadn't come across those stories before.

RK I do understand where you're coming from - but can't you see that your strident condemnation doesn't help advance the cause of logical atheism? I'm not suggesting for a second that you're murderous. but you can be as confrontational in your own beliefs as some fundamentalists.

Atheism is a lack of a belief, not a belief.
I actually met a Thor worshiper once... they are out there.

DanaC · 10-07-2007, 03:02 AM

Atheism isn't a lack of belief, it's a lack of faith :P

Sundae · 10-07-2007, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Atheism is a lack of a belief, not a belief.
I actually met a Thor worshiper once... they are out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Atheism isn't a lack of belief, it's a lack of faith :P

It is something you believe in. Other people believe something different. I also believe it is true (there is no god or gods, no creator etc) but I cannot prove it. Therefore it is a belief.

Ibby · 10-07-2007, 08:50 AM

Not believing something because of lack of proof does not mean you believe in something.

If there is no evidence at all for something, it is not a belief that it does not exist - it is technical fact, and believing otherwise is a belief.
Or something like that, it's late and i just hung out with a (pretty hot) friend I havent seen in a long time whos visiting from singapore. I'm not entirely in my best state of mind right now, haha.

Ibby · 10-07-2007, 08:55 AM

the burden of proof lies on the one making a positive assertion; you can't prove a negative.

Pie · 10-07-2007, 09:25 AM

Personally, I find that "belief" is a dirty word.

Anything outside of the phrase "I believe I'll have another beer."

- Pie

DanaC · 10-07-2007, 11:49 AM

I think possibly our definitions of belief are at odds. I believe that socialism is a better system than laissez faire capitalism. I believe I am a good person. I do not believe in God, but I also actively believe there is a scientific explanation for everything (even if we haven't found them all). I believe there is no God.

Yes, the burden of proof is on the person stating something does exist, and it seems somewhat strange to actively believe in the absence of something, but belief is simply another of our mechanisms, or tools, with which we rationalise our world. The world I live in has a majority of people who believe in a God, or Gods. Historically, people have generally accepted the existence of Gods and other supernatural explanations of the world. Because of that, it is actually us who have a duty to provide the proof, since we are the ones seeking to change the status quo, and overturn accepted 'truths'.

Pie · 10-07-2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFreeDictionary

be·lief
1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.
2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.
3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.

Yes, "belief" certainly isn't wrong by itself. The problem comes when people think belief based on blind faith should be given the same weight as belief secured by provable data.

DanaC · 10-07-2007, 01:12 PM

Agreed. But...given that I am not a scientist, and in truth have not the relevant knowledge and expertise to properly assess the validity of the data that scientists produce, nor indeed to understand a great deal of the theory...surely by accepting their facts my belief in them is partially blind.

Pie · 10-07-2007, 01:33 PM

Nor do I claim to understand even a tiny fraction of all that is factually known. The times when a single person could hope to encompass all human knowledge is long, long gone.

Sidenote: issues of fact, belief and provability are currently taking center stage in my life. I'm currently serving on a jury in a criminal trial; hopefully I'll get to discuss it in depth once it's all over.

DanaC · 10-07-2007, 02:30 PM

Oh that sounds really interesting. I look forward to your insights.

Aliantha · 10-07-2007, 05:10 PM

Are you allowed to do that Pie? Over here, you basically get sworn to secrecy after you've been on a jury.

Pie · 10-07-2007, 06:57 PM

Given that former jurors write books about their trials, I would guess that I can discuss it. But I will ask the judge!

Aliantha · 10-07-2007, 07:10 PM

lol...it's ok. I just wondered seriously because when I did jury duty on a criminal case, we were told we could never discuss the case in detail with anyone other than one confidant, and that writing books etc was strictly prohibited. I thought it was odd that he'd say such a thing at the time, but obviously now I know why.

monster · 10-07-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Atheism is a lack of a belief, not a belief.

Lack of belief is more like agnosticism. Atheism is the belief there is no god.

Quote:

I actually met a Thor worshiper once... they are out there.

Many worship him from afar -after all he is pretty cute- but they soon back off when they realize the true extent of his warmongering capabilities. And the mess he leaves behind.

10-07-2007, 08:50 AM	#34
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Not believing something because of lack of proof does not mean you believe in something. If there is no evidence at all for something, it is not a belief that it does not exist - it is technical fact, and believing otherwise is a belief. Or something like that, it's late and i just hung out with a (pretty hot) friend I havent seen in a long time whos visiting from singapore. I'm not entirely in my best state of mind right now, haha. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

10-07-2007, 08:55 AM	#35
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	the burden of proof lies on the one making a positive assertion; you can't prove a negative. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

10-07-2007, 09:25 AM	#36
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	Personally, I find that "belief" is a dirty word. Anything outside of the phrase "I believe I'll have another beer." - Pie __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

10-07-2007, 01:33 PM	#40
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	Nor do I claim to understand even a tiny fraction of all that is factually known. The times when a single person could hope to encompass all human knowledge is long, long gone. Sidenote: issues of fact, belief and provability are currently taking center stage in my life. I'm currently serving on a jury in a criminal trial; hopefully I'll get to discuss it in depth once it's all over. __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

10-07-2007, 05:10 PM	#42
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Are you allowed to do that Pie? Over here, you basically get sworn to secrecy after you've been on a jury. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-07-2007, 03:02 AM	#32
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Atheism isn't a lack of belief, it's a lack of faith :P

10-07-2007, 11:49 AM	#37
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I think possibly our definitions of belief are at odds. I believe that socialism is a better system than laissez faire capitalism. I believe I am a good person. I do not believe in God, but I also actively believe there is a scientific explanation for everything (even if we haven't found them all). I believe there is no God. Yes, the burden of proof is on the person stating something does exist, and it seems somewhat strange to actively believe in the absence of something, but belief is simply another of our mechanisms, or tools, with which we rationalise our world. The world I live in has a majority of people who believe in a God, or Gods. Historically, people have generally accepted the existence of Gods and other supernatural explanations of the world. Because of that, it is actually us who have a duty to provide the proof, since we are the ones seeking to change the status quo, and overturn accepted 'truths'.

10-07-2007, 01:12 PM	#39
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Agreed. But...given that I am not a scientist, and in truth have not the relevant knowledge and expertise to properly assess the validity of the data that scientists produce, nor indeed to understand a great deal of the theory...surely by accepting their facts my belief in them is partially blind.

10-07-2007, 02:30 PM	#41
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Oh that sounds really interesting. I look forward to your insights.

10-07-2007, 06:57 PM	#43
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	Given that former jurors write books about their trials, I would guess that I can discuss it. But I will ask the judge! __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

10-07-2007, 07:10 PM	#44
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	lol...it's ok. I just wondered seriously because when I did jury duty on a criminal case, we were told we could never discuss the case in detail with anyone other than one confidant, and that writing books etc was strictly prohibited. I thought it was odd that he'd say such a thing at the time, but obviously now I know why. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

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