Anonymous Mom, No Dads, + 14

[Shawnee123]

The plot sickens:

Yolanda Garcia, 49, of Whittier, said she helped care for Nadya Suleman's autistic son three years ago.

"From what I could tell back then, she was pretty happy with herself, saying she liked having kids and she wanted 12 kids in all," Garcia told the Long Beach Press-Telegram.

"She told me that all of her kids were through in vitro, and I said 'Gosh, how can you afford that and go to school at the same time?"' she added. "And she said it's because she got paid for it."

Garcia said she did not ask for details.

This is, of course, all hearsay.

(Grand)Mom didn't support the idea either.

She said she warned her daughter that when she gets home from the hospital, "I'm going to be gone."

Article here.

[Cloud]

bizarre

[classicman]

"It would be extremely unusual, very strange and hard to believe that somebody who is a professional would put that many embryos into a woman who is 33 years old who has children," Slayden said.

Seems unconscionable to me.

The nanny who works with the octuplets' siblings said Friday that the woman "adores her babies" and is "a perfect mom."

"a perfect mom."?? By what definition???

[TheMercenary]

I think in this new age of Socialist Capitalism and the Second Coming, Obama needs to finally make a law that requires permits for pregnancy of any kind. I would support that.

[HungLikeJesus]

Tod: You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father.

...

[Shawnee123]

omg...I love that movie, and that line. Awesome, HLJ.

[Clodfobble]

Oh, wow.

There were frozen embryos left over after her previous pregnancies and her daughter didn't want them destroyed, so she decided to have more children.
...
"She doesn't have any more (frozen embryos), so it's over now," she said. "It has to be."

She already had the embryos, but even at the rate of roughly one baby every year (six kids, ages seven and under,) she was already 33 and time was ticking by. So she found the one doctor who would implant them all at once. I take it back, she's not just irresponsible, she's got a psychological problem.

[DanaC]

I don't know much about it, but I have heard that some women get 'addicted' or tied into the baby stage of motherhood. Maybe this woman has a problem. What I can't get my head around is the doctor who would carry out such a procedure on a woman with no fertility issues (clearly) an already large family and then implant so many embryos.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by DanaC

What I can't get my head around is the doctor who would carry out such a procedure on a woman with no fertility issues (clearly) an already large family and then implant so many embryos.

I don't want ANY doctor making a decision for me on how I should live my life.

I want a doctor to tell me the risks involved (in the procedure, with my lifestyle choices, whatever). If, at that point, I choose to go ahead with (the procedure, with my risky behavior), then I want that doctor to do his best while treating me.

Are you really willing to advocate letting doctors impose their morality on patients?


ps...not picking on you, Dana, you just worded that really well...

[glatt]

First, do no harm.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by glatt

First, do no harm.

Let me just have a little conversation with myself here.


I looked up the Hippocratic oath after making that post above. Turns out it isn't in the oath, although similar language is. One interesting thing is that the oath seems to prohibit a doctor performing abortions. The original text is below, translated into English:

I swear by Apollo, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath.

To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.

I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.

I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.

In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.

All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.

If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.

So I wondered if there was a modern version of this oath. It seems that there are many modern versions, and each school chooses its own.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I don't want ANY doctor making a decision for me on how I should live my life.

Don't put your reproduction in the hands of doctors then.

Are you really willing to advocate letting doctors impose their morality on patients?

Ummmm - yep.

Mebbe it's a European thing.
Not being as religious, we tend not to have a deal with the soul kinda thing. Which is why stem cell research is not such a big deal over here.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Don't put your reproduction in the hands of doctors then.

So those women who are infertile...too damn bad for you? So...you can't go to a doctor for abortion now?

Mebbe it's a European thing.
Not being as religious, we tend not to have a deal with the soul kinda thing. Which is why stem cell research is not such a big deal over here.

I'm not talking about a soul kind of thing. I'm talking about doctors not having a right to make life decisions for me. If I want 30 kids, and I can pay for the procedure, that's all my doctor needs to know. It's not his right to make a moral judgement on my life. I expect him to tell me that's not a good idea for my body, and explain the physical risks of carrying all those children, but I don't expect him to say "No, I won't do it because I don't think it's good for the planet." or whatever else bullshit reason. It's not his call. He can choose not to treat me, and that's ok, I'll find a doctor who will.

Same can be said for abortion. If a woman went to a doctor for an abortion and he told her no, she can't have one on moral grounds, you'd be having a fit. If she has a right to an abortion, she also has a right to have as many kids as she can.

[Pie]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I expect him to tell me that's not a good idea for my body, and explain the physical risks of carrying all those children...

I can certainly agree with that. The problem here is that the doctor did go ahead and endanger both her life and the lives of her soon-to-be children by implanting 8 embryos in her.

Small family, big family - not the doc's business. 8 embryos at one time - violation of medical ethics!

[classicman]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I'm talking about doctors not having a right to make life decisions for me.

Many doctors make that decision every day.

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

If a woman went to a doctor for an abortion and he told her no, she can't have one on moral grounds, you'd be having a fit. If she has a right to an abortion, she also has a right to have as many kids as she can.

I wouldn't. But I'm a guy. I have no problem with a doctor making a non life/death decision on his own moral grounds.

But thats just "off the cuff " as you put it.