PETA

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by wolf

Which has what to do with what?

I'm a witch and likely have entirely different ideas than you about how the world hangs together, which is entirely different from how Elspode might approach the same questions.

You know what they say, ask 10 witches about an issue, and you're likely to get 15 to 20 different opinions.

At risk of derailing the thread ... based on other statements you have made, what is your position on a woman's right to choose?

Someone asked me if I was Hindu. I simply answered the question. I was not bringing that into the argument.

I know witches are very diverse groups of people, with all kinds of different ideas. I have known witches who weren't environmentalists, which to me, goes against the whole belief system. But part of being of a witch, at least in the sense that I call myself one, is also the idea that everyone is their own authority (I do not believe in heirarchical structures). If you know anything about Reclaiming or Feri, that is the system I follow.

To answer your question, I fully support a woman's right to choose.

Those are precisely the reasons that I attack.

And those are valid reasons to attack. But my argument for not using animals for testing follows that logic. At least it does in my mind.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

To answer your question, I fully support a woman's right to choose.

Then only selected portions of life are sacred to you.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by wolf

Then only selected portions of life are sacred to you.

Why? When you say life, you include all forms of life, and that includes bacteria and viruses and all kinds of things. Do you take medicine when you get sick? Then you are killing a lifeform. Do you swat mosquitos or flies or kill cockroaches? Killing a lifeform.

Believing all things are sacred does not mean you never destroy anything. It means you destroy as little as possible, and only when you really need to (we have to eat, one way or another, one form of life is dying to nourish us, whether plant, or animal). I do not have a problem with people eating meat, or drinking milk, I have a problem with the way the animals are raised and killed. We have to sometimes cut down trees, but that doesn't mean we should indiscriminately support destroying forests or trees, or clearcutting, for the sake of having wood. I am part Sioux, and that philosophy is a part of me. It is very akin to the principles of witchcraft. If you are a witch, you know there are creator/destroyer deities, and in practicing, you call on those attributes. In order to create, sometimes we have to destroy. The whole point is to do it honorably and mindfully.

And ftr, I do not think an embryo is the same thing as a human being. After an embryo reaches a certain point, I don't think women should have abortions, but I am not willing to force that on another, because they might not believe the same as I do. I don't think abortions should be used as birth control, but I also don't believe a woman should be forced to have a baby she doesn't want or cannot afford. Some women use birth control and still get pregnant. I don't think they should have to pay for that because it isn't their fault.

[TheMercenary]

Ok, lets just round up some illegals and bash them in the head and do experiments on them, ok? :rollseyes:

[Datalyss]

http://www.hsus.org/animals_in_research/animal_testing/

The HSUS considers animal-based toxicity studies to be an ethically and scientifically questionable means of evaluating potential hazards to human beings, wildlife, or the environment we all share. We are working on a national and global level to promote greater reliance on available alternative testing methods, and are actively supporting a landmark call by the US National Research Council for fundamental changes to the way product testing is conducted—to move from animal tests that are decades old, costly, slow and of dubious relevance to people, to ultra-modern, efficient and human-relevant non-animal methods.

[piercehawkeye45]

I will focus on animal rights once human rights are addressed....

[Nirvana]

They are not mutually exclusive.

If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man.
- St Francis of Assisi

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I will focus on animal rights once human rights are addressed....

Since human rights will always be an issue anyway,
there will be other people around who will take care of advocating for animal rights.

[piercehawkeye45]

I disagree with that. Obviously, groups that violently abuse power on animals are likely to violently abuse power on humans as well but it is not an absolute. Humans should be taken care of first, other animals can then go.

*Note, when I talk about not focusing on animal rights, I am talking about animal rights that will hurt humans. I am not talking about senseless killing and sadist behavior.

[Cicero]

I am a petatarian. I only eat PETA'Z.

[Shawnee123]

I like Pez!

[Nirvana]

People don't realize that the Animal Rights movement has nothing to do with the welfare of the animals - genuine animal welfare is being sacrificed for a political victory over animal owners and their right to have pets.

[xoxoxoBruce]

And parts of it are nothing but fund raising scams.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

People don't realize that the Animal Rights movement has nothing to do with the welfare of the animals - genuine animal welfare is being sacrificed for a political victory over animal owners and their right to have pets.

As I said, I don't agree with everything PETA says or does. I have 3 cats. I have always had cats. I don't think some people should have pets, because they don't really care for them. They abuse them or they neglect them.

Case in point, that woman who had the chimp that had to be put down, the way she treated that animal, that was abuse. Animals are animals, they still have wildness in them. Chimps are not meant to drink wine and eat steak and lobster and basically be treated like a companion.

[Trilby]

People are "against" PETA because PETA does zany, wild, attention-grabbing stuff. And, they say insane shit sometimes. But I do give to the ASPCA coz i like critters.