Suffer the little children... - Page 4

BlueSky_TheMan · 06-23-2006, 10:30 AM

....and therefore if she's heavier than a duck , she's a Witch !

.....sorry I'm having a Monty Python moment.

I like your enlightenment observation...

Undertoad · 06-23-2006, 10:34 AM

But back to xoB's guy's question -- is the whole concept of "enlightened consciousness" a higher power than me, an individual?

BlueSky_TheMan · 06-23-2006, 11:07 AM

Is the whole concept of "enlightened consciousness" a higher power than me, an individual?

Answering that is tricky. As I’ve seen in this thread these concepts utilize so many words that have many meanings for different people. To add my two cents I’ll define a couple words first:

Individual Me = this is the worldly consciousness that has been shaped by this physical existence. It knows: My name is Bluesky, I’m sad when treated badly, I hurt when I can’t have something I’ve been desiring. It does NOT know I am intrinsically connected to all other life/beings.

True Me (filtered/unfiltered) = a consciousness that shares all knowable knowledge with God and all humans that are or have ever been. This “True Me” is the internal part of the “Individual Me” that observes\witnesses all that physically happens. True Me looking thru the physical form(filtered) would have limits upon it that the True Me that see’s ALL unfiltered does not have.

Higher Power = I won’t attempt to say what power means here or to qualify if the “somethings” being compared, should be compared because they are from separate realms etc… I’ll just say “Higher” is the “something” that is Higher up the consciousness/awareness Ladder.

Now for my next trick I’ll answer the question with a few equations:

God = True Me(unfiltered)
True Me(unfiltered) = All other True Me’s(unfiltered)
True Me(unfiltered) > Enlightened Consciousness
Enlightened Consciousness = True Me(filtered) + Individual Me
True Me(filtered) > Individual Me
Enlightened Consciousness > Individual Me

Wow… I don’t think I’ve ever put all that on paper before. It’s usually just running around within my skull. Looking over it I can’t tell if I’m a genius or in serious need of therapy….

Pangloss62 · 06-23-2006, 11:17 AM

All I know is I could never date anyone who professed a belief in God, period. Unless they were really cute and did not mind having sex for pleasure instead of making babies.

It's amazing what you can put up with.

BlueSky_TheMan · 06-23-2006, 11:20 AM

P62,

Why do you think that a Belief in God means a person is ugly and they don't have sex for pleasure ?

Pangloss62 · 06-23-2006, 11:33 AM

There are plenty of "cute" believers in God. But since this thread started with a description of a rather fundamentalist pentacostal, that's the type I was referring too. I'm very adamant in my atheism, and it is hard for me to have relationships with believers, cute or not. I could never have a relationship with any kind of "fundamentalist," Christian or non. And the wishy-washy "spiritualists" are a pain. My current girlfriend believes in God, but it's mostly a private thing with her.

As for the sex for pleasure, many fundementalists say that's a sin. As is Onanism.

BlueSky_TheMan · 06-23-2006, 12:02 PM

I can understand your belief in characteristics of a God Believer with a Fundamentalist Pentecostal as the backdrop for the statement.

It amazes me that people still call themselves one "type" of religion or the other. I can't think of any religion (or non-religion) that hasn't been bashed with one type of negative stereotype or another. I do feel that the world is full of many people that believe those stereotypes too quickly. For example, using the beginning of this thread concerned with dead babies and your claim to the label "Atheism" . There are people in this world that would call you a baby killer only based on their own personal life experiences and the word Atheist. I’m sure there are many other characteristics that people apply to “atheist” but they don’t apply to you specifically. Is one of the tenets of atheism to treat people kindly? , And wouldn’t kindness include not assuming a person contains all the negative qualities of a given group they participate in? This is all just food for thought.

Irregardless… Ugliness is only an opinion that changes from person to person; it’s not possible to NOT have pleasure while having sex, and masturbation is probably performed by more fundamentalist’s than not.

Pangloss62 · 06-23-2006, 02:02 PM

My brother has some weird, post-Catholic (my mother's special brand) issues with sex that make me think he does not enjoy it. One of his ex-girlfriends told me that, after many days of not having sex with her, she asked him why and he said "I don't want to taint you with my sin." Now talk about baggage!

And not only can atheists (I don't capitalize the a) be nice, I think they have an imperative to be so. No God, no excuses. No afterlife, no infinite temporal framework in which to make amends.

BlueSky_TheMan · 06-23-2006, 02:42 PM

Your brother may be feeling the guilt and "sin" because he does enjoy it.

He obviously believes somewhere inside that he should not be having sex. If that is what he believes he would not be having Sex unless something stronger than his belief interceded. That something stronger could be pleasure.

Ibby · 06-23-2006, 02:46 PM

My attitude to the whole 'god' thing is, there may be and there may not be, but i dont care either way. If you believe in god, thats great for you, dont force your beliefs on me or anyone else. If you dont, thats great, but don't force your non-belief on me or anyone else.

I'm against organized religion, because it gives those on top too much power. The Pope, or the Dalai Lama, or that televangalist dude i hate, could all say whatever they wanted, and their followers would listen. I think of myself as Buddhist, but its a very personal, very individual kinda buddhism (as in i'm alone in doing what i do, not as in it makes ME all antisocial or self-centered or anything). I don't believe in flying bodhisattvas on their clouds, and i dont believe in all the monsters and demons, but i do believe that Siddhartha Gautma had a damn good message. In that respect, really, to me, its more of a philosophy than a religion, because it's all grounded in fact and logic. What many forms of buddhism have become is little different than the way christians have departed a ways from the simple message of christ and added other things to the mix. I go from what the Buddha said, not what him and a buncha other people said.

Pangloss62 · 06-23-2006, 03:06 PM

Many folks think that teaching evolution in public schools is forcing atheism upon their kids. It's weird when you think about it, but history and science probably do more to make God inplausible than anything else.

The only "ist" I can see myself as is a materialist. And if your Gautmanian view of the world is based upon fact and logic, that's probably just as good as atheism.

And Bluesky. I concur, mostly. It's probably the desire rather than the actual pleasure, however. For me, every time after I splooge I ask myself "Why was I so horny only 10 minutes ago, and now all I want is a sandwich?"

BlueSky_TheMan · 06-23-2006, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pangloss62

...And Bluesky. I concur, mostly. It's probably the desire rather than the actual pleasure, however. For me, every time after I splooge I ask myself "Why was I so horny only 10 minutes ago, and now all I want is a sandwich?"

...pleasure comes first, then desire. We only feel a desire for those things that bring us pleasure (even if it's a sadistic pleasure). What is Desire ? Desire is an urge to have something that you fear you will never get again, or at least not enough of again. So if you just had it, you know without a doubt that you can get it, at least untill enough time goes by that you start to fear you can't get it again and the desire rises. That's why anything you try "not" to want (sex,food,drugs) you get stronger and stronger desires for the more you tell yourself no...

Pangloss62 · 06-23-2006, 03:29 PM

I wonder if marichicko is taking all our great advice to heart.

BlueSky_TheMan · 06-23-2006, 03:34 PM

I hope so..

Urbane Guerrilla · 06-24-2006, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

My statement had neither of those qualifiers/values on it.

And so? Can I not see the disapproval, the troubled heart, behind the line?

Quote:

If you're going to open your mouth around UG, be prepared to have him put words in it. fyi.

V, I do not put words in people's mouths. I recently went to work on Mari for putting words in mine. We came to a satisfactory understanding. I don't think you can accurately cite a single example of me putting words in mouths. But do have a little faith in my ability to read between the lines. Not everyone is entirely forthcoming; sometimes you have to tease things apart a bit, try a conclusion about an underlying motive.

06-23-2006, 10:30 AM	#46
BlueSky_TheMan This moment is a gift, thats why they call it the present. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 56	....and therefore if she's heavier than a duck , she's a Witch ! .....sorry I'm having a Monty Python moment. I like your enlightenment observation... __________________ -- I’m a Father, Husband, Son, Computer Dude, Sometimes Artist, Thirty Something, American, Jeep Driver, and devotee to truth, on a life path to remove the labels placed on my existence. --

06-23-2006, 11:07 AM	#48
BlueSky_TheMan This moment is a gift, thats why they call it the present. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 56	Is the whole concept of "enlightened consciousness" a higher power than me, an individual? Answering that is tricky. As I’ve seen in this thread these concepts utilize so many words that have many meanings for different people. To add my two cents I’ll define a couple words first: Individual Me = this is the worldly consciousness that has been shaped by this physical existence. It knows: My name is Bluesky, I’m sad when treated badly, I hurt when I can’t have something I’ve been desiring. It does NOT know I am intrinsically connected to all other life/beings. True Me (filtered/unfiltered) = a consciousness that shares all knowable knowledge with God and all humans that are or have ever been. This “True Me” is the internal part of the “Individual Me” that observes\witnesses all that physically happens. True Me looking thru the physical form(filtered) would have limits upon it that the True Me that see’s ALL unfiltered does not have. Higher Power = I won’t attempt to say what power means here or to qualify if the “somethings” being compared, should be compared because they are from separate realms etc… I’ll just say “Higher” is the “something” that is Higher up the consciousness/awareness Ladder. Now for my next trick I’ll answer the question with a few equations: God = True Me(unfiltered) True Me(unfiltered) = All other True Me’s(unfiltered) True Me(unfiltered) > Enlightened Consciousness Enlightened Consciousness = True Me(filtered) + Individual Me True Me(filtered) > Individual Me Enlightened Consciousness > Individual Me Wow… I don’t think I’ve ever put all that on paper before. It’s usually just running around within my skull. Looking over it I can’t tell if I’m a genius or in serious need of therapy…. __________________ -- I’m a Father, Husband, Son, Computer Dude, Sometimes Artist, Thirty Something, American, Jeep Driver, and devotee to truth, on a life path to remove the labels placed on my existence. --

06-23-2006, 11:17 AM	#49
Pangloss62 Lecturer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 768	All I know is I could never date anyone who professed a belief in God, period. Unless they were really cute and did not mind having sex for pleasure instead of making babies. It's amazing what you can put up with. __________________ Things are never as good, or bad, as they seem.

06-23-2006, 11:20 AM	#50
BlueSky_TheMan This moment is a gift, thats why they call it the present. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 56	P62, Why do you think that a Belief in God means a person is ugly and they don't have sex for pleasure ? __________________ -- I’m a Father, Husband, Son, Computer Dude, Sometimes Artist, Thirty Something, American, Jeep Driver, and devotee to truth, on a life path to remove the labels placed on my existence. --

06-23-2006, 11:33 AM	#51
Pangloss62 Lecturer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 768	There are plenty of "cute" believers in God. But since this thread started with a description of a rather fundamentalist pentacostal, that's the type I was referring too. I'm very adamant in my atheism, and it is hard for me to have relationships with believers, cute or not. I could never have a relationship with any kind of "fundamentalist," Christian or non. And the wishy-washy "spiritualists" are a pain. My current girlfriend believes in God, but it's mostly a private thing with her. As for the sex for pleasure, many fundementalists say that's a sin. As is Onanism. __________________ Things are never as good, or bad, as they seem.

06-23-2006, 10:34 AM	#47
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	But back to xoB's guy's question -- is the whole concept of "enlightened consciousness" a higher power than me, an individual?

06-23-2006, 12:02 PM	#52
BlueSky_TheMan This moment is a gift, thats why they call it the present. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 56	I can understand your belief in characteristics of a God Believer with a Fundamentalist Pentecostal as the backdrop for the statement. It amazes me that people still call themselves one "type" of religion or the other. I can't think of any religion (or non-religion) that hasn't been bashed with one type of negative stereotype or another. I do feel that the world is full of many people that believe those stereotypes too quickly. For example, using the beginning of this thread concerned with dead babies and your claim to the label "Atheism" . There are people in this world that would call you a baby killer only based on their own personal life experiences and the word Atheist. I’m sure there are many other characteristics that people apply to “atheist” but they don’t apply to you specifically. Is one of the tenets of atheism to treat people kindly? , And wouldn’t kindness include not assuming a person contains all the negative qualities of a given group they participate in? This is all just food for thought. Irregardless… Ugliness is only an opinion that changes from person to person; it’s not possible to NOT have pleasure while having sex, and masturbation is probably performed by more fundamentalist’s than not. __________________ -- I’m a Father, Husband, Son, Computer Dude, Sometimes Artist, Thirty Something, American, Jeep Driver, and devotee to truth, on a life path to remove the labels placed on my existence. --

06-23-2006, 02:02 PM	#53
Pangloss62 Lecturer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 768	Non-pleasurable sex My brother has some weird, post-Catholic (my mother's special brand) issues with sex that make me think he does not enjoy it. One of his ex-girlfriends told me that, after many days of not having sex with her, she asked him why and he said "I don't want to taint you with my sin." Now talk about baggage! And not only can atheists (I don't capitalize the a) be nice, I think they have an imperative to be so. No God, no excuses. No afterlife, no infinite temporal framework in which to make amends. __________________ Things are never as good, or bad, as they seem.

06-23-2006, 02:42 PM	#54
BlueSky_TheMan This moment is a gift, thats why they call it the present. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 56	Your brother may be feeling the guilt and "sin" because he does enjoy it. He obviously believes somewhere inside that he should not be having sex. If that is what he believes he would not be having Sex unless something stronger than his belief interceded. That something stronger could be pleasure. __________________ -- I’m a Father, Husband, Son, Computer Dude, Sometimes Artist, Thirty Something, American, Jeep Driver, and devotee to truth, on a life path to remove the labels placed on my existence. --

06-23-2006, 02:46 PM	#55
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	My attitude to the whole 'god' thing is, there may be and there may not be, but i dont care either way. If you believe in god, thats great for you, dont force your beliefs on me or anyone else. If you dont, thats great, but don't force your non-belief on me or anyone else. I'm against organized religion, because it gives those on top too much power. The Pope, or the Dalai Lama, or that televangalist dude i hate, could all say whatever they wanted, and their followers would listen. I think of myself as Buddhist, but its a very personal, very individual kinda buddhism (as in i'm alone in doing what i do, not as in it makes ME all antisocial or self-centered or anything). I don't believe in flying bodhisattvas on their clouds, and i dont believe in all the monsters and demons, but i do believe that Siddhartha Gautma had a damn good message. In that respect, really, to me, its more of a philosophy than a religion, because it's all grounded in fact and logic. What many forms of buddhism have become is little different than the way christians have departed a ways from the simple message of christ and added other things to the mix. I go from what the Buddha said, not what him and a buncha other people said. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

06-23-2006, 03:06 PM	#56
Pangloss62 Lecturer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 768	Forced Atheism Many folks think that teaching evolution in public schools is forcing atheism upon their kids. It's weird when you think about it, but history and science probably do more to make God inplausible than anything else. The only "ist" I can see myself as is a materialist. And if your Gautmanian view of the world is based upon fact and logic, that's probably just as good as atheism. And Bluesky. I concur, mostly. It's probably the desire rather than the actual pleasure, however. For me, every time after I splooge I ask myself "Why was I so horny only 10 minutes ago, and now all I want is a sandwich?" __________________ Things are never as good, or bad, as they seem.

06-23-2006, 03:29 PM	#58
Pangloss62 Lecturer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 768	I wonder if marichicko is taking all our great advice to heart. __________________ Things are never as good, or bad, as they seem.

06-23-2006, 03:34 PM	#59
BlueSky_TheMan This moment is a gift, thats why they call it the present. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 56	I hope so.. __________________ -- I’m a Father, Husband, Son, Computer Dude, Sometimes Artist, Thirty Something, American, Jeep Driver, and devotee to truth, on a life path to remove the labels placed on my existence. --

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