I hate the medical profession

[infinite monkey]

I'm glad you weren't brutally murdered by ticks. [/demitrimartin]

[Nirvana]

I am glad there are antibiotics. Are they over prescribed? YES! Do some have side effects that can cause death? YES are the patients told? I don't think so who would take something if a DR said BTW this might make you well or it might cause you to have :

diarrhea that is watery or bloody;

headache with chest pain and severe dizziness, fainting, fast or pounding heartbeats;

cardiac arrest

Death
nausea, upper stomach pain, itching, loss of appetite, dark urine, clay-colored stools, jaundice (yellowing of the skin or eyes); or

severe skin reaction -- fever, sore throat, swelling in your face or tongue, burning in your eyes, skin pain, followed by a red or purple skin rash that spreads (especially in the face or upper body) and causes blistering and peeling.



mild diarrhea, vomiting, constipation;

stomach pain or upset;

dizziness, tired feeling, mild headache;

nervous feeling, sleep problems (insomnia);

vaginal itching or discharge;

mild rash or itching;

ringing in your ears, problems with hearing; or

decreased sense of taste or smell.



I would rather take something that may make you well but will not kill you or cause life altering defects. I would rather practice prevention and not need any drugs. Allot of medical conditions are self inflicted.

[DanaC]

And quacks...dear me. I have had way too much fucking experience of quackery.

[Nirvana]

Love your comments Xob. I am not against all modern medical treatment.

HM The only way to have double blind studies is to have them funded. That takes so much money that only a drug company could afford to have this done, or the government who would never bite the hand that feeds them. Drug companies funding drug research is most certainly a conflict of interest since commercial value outweighs any effective treatment value. What is a few thousand deaths compared to 20 million symptoms masked?

An orange may affect a cure for scurry but you may not say this because that would make it a drug subject to the scrutiny of FDA approval.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Modern medicine = treat the symptoms

Alternative= cure the ailment

No, alternative treatments are frequently aimed at symptoms, too. Homeopathy explicitly so. And vaccines and antibiotics treat the ailment.

Originally Posted by Nirvana

HM The only way to have double blind studies is to have them funded. That takes so much money that only a drug company could afford to have this done, or the government who would never bite the hand that feeds them.

I'd have sympathy for that viewpoint if any alternative medicines that failed double-blind studies that actually were performed despite the cost were subsequently dropped from the market. The closest I can think of is Zicam which was recalled after causing actual harm, but have any been recalled for uselessness?

That's one of the things that makes drug production expensive - if they fail then they don't get to sell it.

That's not something the alternative medicine producers have to deal with.

Drug companies funding drug research is most certainly a conflict of interest since commercial value outweighs any effective treatment value. What is a few thousand deaths compared to 20 million symptoms masked?

And what is a few thousand deaths due to lack of effective treatment compared to 20 million customers buying your alternative pills? Commercial value outweighs any effective testing value on the alternative side.

[Nirvana]

That's one of the things that makes drug production expensive - if they fail then they don't get to sell it.

Vioxx?

Commercial value outweighs any effecive testing value on the alternative side.

Isn't that the problem? BTW I do not own alternatives they are not "mine" I prefer a mix of the available information. I will visit a physician. I also believe that people should be able to choose their own path. Even if Steve Jobs could have lived longer maybe he did not want to...Should medical care be forced on people? No, unless they are a danger to others...

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Vioxx?

A failure of the system doesn't make the lack of any system into a virtue.

Vioxx was removed from the market after fraud was discovered in its clinical trials, and after further studies found more risk.

Would it have been better if they had put it on the market without clinical trials? And never did any further studies to assess risk after the fact?

Isn't that the problem?

Yes; that's why you should err on the side of the treatments that are required to do the testing despite the cost. Occasional failures in testing are better than never testing and ignoring any testing that does occur.

BTW I do not own alternatives they are not "mine" I prefer a mix of the available information.

I was unclear; the "your" in that sentence was intended to be from the perspective of the alternative medication provider.

[Nirvana]

Claiming there is a lack of any testing for vitamin and alternative treatments is false information.

While I understand this company provides vitamins and alternatives it also provides in depth double blind study results on many treatments and supplements. The problem in modern medicine is it's all or nothing else will work approach or the disregard for information that is not funneled though the medical/drug community.

Life Extension

LINK

This is not my health bible, it is but one tool I use to learn about viable alternatives. They do not sell snake oil.

[Nirvana]

Tramadol a wormer for sheep is about $2 for 30 pills but as a human cancer "treatment" its about $6 a pill WTF?


I liked your post PW because sometimes people have to think for themselves instead of mindlessly drinking the kool aid.

[Nirvana]

Know what they call alternative medicine that can be tested and proven to work? Medicine.

I call it too expensive for the average person. I am glad most alternative therapies are not called [described as] medicine/drug because then I would need a Dr to prescribe and it would be 100x the price.

[DanaC]

*nods* fair point. Not something that applies so much over here. Healthshops with ranges of natural remedies and advice on what to use, along with various alternative therapists make a mint over here. When for most people, a visit to their doctor is free, and the maximum charge for prescription drugs is £7.50 per item. Anything that can be bought otc for less the doctor will generally advise you to do so rather than prescribe.

I know, probably more than most given my family's woeful experiences of medical neglect and outright incompetence, that doctors are not perfect. And I know from years of regular contact with the medical world that sometimes the cure is not worth it, and some medicines are about ongoing profit rather than curing illnesses.

But some of the dangers in the alternative medicine scene are real problem, not least the danger that someone who really, really should be getting proven medicine from a qualified doctor, might delay such in favour of alternative, homeopathic, or holistic healing options. The harm isn't always in the substance. The harm is often in the delay it brings.

And speaking as someone who spent way too many years on the treatment merry-go-round, I know that there are a lot of practitioners making great big piles of cash from the hopes of desperate people.

[Nirvana]

Here a Dr visit is $100 or more and around 1 and 1/2 times that for medicine.

[quote] The harm is often in the delay it brings [quote]

This comes down to personal choice and not everyone makes good decisions [insert Steve Jobs here] but modern medicine, the entire industry and social machinery of it is, at its root, a totalitarian system. By that, I mean that there is a central ideology that seeks to enforce its domination by methodically obstructing any ideas that run counter to it.

[footfootfoot]

Self diagnosis can be a problem. My dad died pretty much as a result of his fervent disbelief in "traditional" medicine, taking way too many magic bullet supplements, and drinking far too much water. He was proud to say that he hadn't been to a doctor since the early 1970s.

He died of un-diagnosed congestive heart failure, convinced that he was coughing all the time and out of breath because he was allergic to something and needed to drink more water to "Flush out the toxins." rather than drowning in his own fluids.

Had he gone to a doctor he might still be alive today or at least lived long enough for his grandkids to remember him, might not. But his self diagnosis and treatment regimen was pretty much for shit.

I agree with perrywinckle, I take all doctors traditional and alternative with a grain of salt, and do a lot of research and ask a lot of questions. I'm not so passive as a patient.

[Nirvana]

I agree with perrywinckle, I take all doctors traditional and alternative with a grain of salt, and do a lot of research and ask a lot of questions. I'm not so passive as a patient.

agreed

[Happy Monkey]

Vitamins which have passed double-blind studies are part of modern medicine. I've been prescribed vitamins by my doctor.

That site does sell at least one bit of snake oil. Homeopathy has been extensively tested and has failed.