What do you hear when people say freedom?

[W.HI.P]

we determine the nature of the wolf by observing the wolf.
the actions of the wolf determine the wolf's nature.
basically, wolves tend to sink their teeth into the sheeps neck and drinks its blood. thats how it feeds.
humans consume millions of bird fetus's a day.
you could easily say that bird fetus's[eggs] is on our species menu.

now, should there be a wolf in the pack who choses not to sink its teeth into the sheeps neck as to drink its blood... it does not make drinking blood from a sheeps neck any less the nature of the wolf.

should there be a human who chooses not to eat a bird fetus, it does not remove bird fetus's as one of our species main courses.

we've been watching the wolf for quite some time, we kinda have a general idea what the wolf's nature is.
how much do we know about human nature?

we've always killed, we will always kill.
war always was and always will be.

by stepping back and watching our species, we can determine, by the actions of this species throughout time, that we are the crudest thing on this planet.
not that this planet is not crude by nature, but we certainly do take it a step further.

religion intervines here trying to make you believe that you're some kind, gentle, loving species.
how could someone believe in something like that when reality proves otherwise.

you think we own this planet?
cause we don't.
we are without doubt, the earths greatest enemy.

[monster]

Originally Posted by W.HI.P

we determine the nature of the wolf by observing the wolf.
the actions of the wolf determine the wolf's nature.
basically, wolves tend to sink their teeth into the sheeps neck and drinks its blood. thats how it feeds.
.

That's why she's in the nuthouse.....

[henry quirk]

"we determine the nature of the wolf by observing the wolf. the actions of the wolf determine the wolf's nature."

so, in your view: the wolf (a kind of bio-automaton…determined and generic) is the equivalent of a self-aware, self-determining, unique, human individual

if this is the foundation of your thinking, then it's no wonder you're on the wrong track


"we are the crudest thing on this planet."

if you judge humanity by the single measure of 'we've always killed, we will always kill', then we're not better or worse than any other animal

i prefer to judge humanity by the actions of the individuals who comprise humanity, and i prefer to judge humanity not only by way of the profane but also the holy

you, my dear whip, are a cog (a knucklehead mcspazatron)...does this mean all humans are cogs?

of course not: only the willfully blind, stupid, and simple are cogs

*shrug*

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yes, Wolf is "a self-aware, self-determining, unique, human individual"... more so than most.

[Phage0070]

Originally Posted by W.HI.P

you think we own this planet?
cause we don't.
we are without doubt, the earths greatest enemy.

Without us, what purpose does the Earth serve?

Do you place inherent value in dirt? We are not getting rid of that any time soon.

Do you place inherent value in plants? We are not getting rid of it all, and cultivating much in its place.

Do you place inherent value in animals other than humans? We are not getting rid of them all, and cultivating much that would not normally survive.

The way I see it, humans are the end-all-be-all of reality. Without us there is no reason to be concerned about the world. As for your moral issues with humanity... morality is not in keeping with the nature of humanity, it is true. It never is, and never will be. Morality is a goal that we work toward; we are always trying to better ourselves, and history records that we are quite good at it. We see how we can become better and set a standard to strive for, that is morality. Claiming that we are horrible because we cannot live up to a standard which keeps being increased as we improve is folly.

[W.HI.P]

murder, theft, rape, don't make us bad in my eyes, they make us human.
its those who seperate themselves from the rest of humanity, pointing at some the others with terrible accusations that i'm looking at.

everytime you point at someone else, you're pointing at yourself.
...of course religion makes you feel better with the idea that they're gonna pay in hell, while you're on your way to heaven.
reality says that its all right here and now.

you have this great idea of your kind phaege.

Without us there is no reason to be concerned about the world

without us, no, the majority of problems that concern the earth would not exist.
we are the earths plague.

i'm sure the ant see's the ant as the center of the universe as well.
i don't see a greater value in the human... you're just as small

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's the difference between life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" vs "peace, order and good government".

[dar512]

Originally Posted by Phage0070

Without us, what purpose does the Earth serve?

[snip]

The way I see it, humans are the end-all-be-all of reality.

You are the crown of creation.

[Pico and ME]

We also cycle. If we get too destructive with our environment or each other, we just end up winnowing our numbers down and starting over again. We rebound and so does the earth and its other inhabitants. At least maybe. :P

[Shawnee123]

No, I am the crown of creation. Puh.

Will the real crown of creation please stand up?

[classicman]

My shit meter overfloweth.

[henry quirk]

"My shit meter overfloweth"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[abcde]

Henry, the views you espouse regarding human superiority make me feel sick. I'm not saying that I totally agree with WHIP. However, your complete disregard for all other life seems to support WHIP's view on human nature far more that it supports your own.

[henry quirk]

Henry, the views you espouse regarding human superiority make me feel sick.

(((good)))

(((the truth hurts...it should hurt...it should make you sick)))

(((the notion that you -- a single human individual -- have more value than all the chickens, cows, pigs, deer, geese, etc. put together should scare the bejeezus out of you)))

(((being a human individual is an awe-full responsibility)))

(((that so many abdicate that responsibility by way of adopting bullshit, namby-pamby, hippyisms, or by way of consistent poor choices, is a fucking shame...but -- really -- not my god damned problem)))

(((so: abcde, as i told the whip, you should feel absolutely free to discharge yourself on whatever foolishness you like...if elevating mere animals to the status of human is your bag, then have at it)))

(((if denigrating yourself, making yourself 'mere animal', is your thing, then -- again -- have at it)))

(((i'm very tolerant of all manner of insanities and inanities...i simply refuse to participate in them)))


...your complete disregard for all other life seems to support WHIP's view on human nature far more that it supports your own.

(((i don't disregard 'all other life'...i simply put 'all other life' into its proper place in the great, natural, hierarchy)))

(((again: find me a non-human debate partner and i'll be glad to reassess the circumstance and adjust my view...)))

[TheMercenary]

Henry, you damm non-conformist.