Win XP: worst OS ever

Undertoad · 02-08-2002, 04:43 PM

How long did it take my pre-loaded XP Pro to become corrupt and unbootable? One hour. An accidental reboot during a Windows Update, and a file is listed as corrupt, preventing the system from booting. Retrieving that file from the CDRom results in nothing but complaints.

Now, re-installing, I get this stinker:

Setup cannot copy the file: wmvcore.dll

So now it's complaining that there may be a problem with my install CD.

I doubt it, really. There may be a problem with their copy prevention.

02-08-2002, 04:54 PM

HP-U<b>XP</b> - Worst OS ever.

Cave in and buy a Mac. Promise you won't regret it if you really give it a chance.

MaggieL · 02-08-2002, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad

So now it's complaining that there may be a problem with my install CD.
I doubt it, really.

No reason to doubt it. It probably has WinXP on it....close to 100% of Windows install CDs have this problem, it's very common. :-)

Seriously, everything about the Windows architecture has been headed to copy-prevention-land since the introduction of the registry and the Windows 95 installer guidelines. And if Windows Update isn't a 100% interruptable and restartable process (clearly it isn't) it's headed for disaster.

Sounds like full-install time. Hope you didn't used to have any special drivers that they forgot to give you. This "preloaded operating system" stuff is a bit like buying a car with the engine running, and hoping you never need to restart it. It's billed as being for your convenience, but the real reason is to make sure the operation of the machine is under total control of the Mother Ship from day one.

And as we move forward, you can't buy a consumer machine with anything but WinXP on it, and there will never be drivers for new consumer hardware for Win-anything-downlevel-from-XP.

tw · 02-08-2002, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
How long did it take my pre-loaded XP Pro to become corrupt and unbootable? One hour.

This happened when you build a new house on a defective foundation. The machine had ME - it had a defective foundation. Too much of ME's problems remains to corrupt XP. It's probably not XP - its ME that is the problem.

Both Windows 95/98/ME and the many iMac Oses (OS7 etc) are simply unstable by today's standards. XP can have two killer flaws - either installed over pathetic Windows 9s/ME systems and that obsolete FAT filesystem, OR installed on clone hardware kludge designed to work with Windows 9x/ME OSes.

A ballpark indicator of poorly designed hardware is that it only worked with Windows 9x OSes originally. Any properly designed hardware worked on both Windows 9x and NT based OSes when originally released. Although less obvious today, in the days of 200 to 700 Mhz machines, too many video cards did not properly support both Windows OSes - a strong indicator that the card would cause Windows NT problems.

Undertoad · 02-09-2002, 08:53 AM

No sir. That was my old problem. I assumed that I had hardware issues that XP couldn't manage, so I ordered an entirely new system with XP pre-loaded by the vendor. All I can say is: don't lose power during a Windows Update.

jaguar · 02-09-2002, 04:14 PM

Why do you want XP in the first place????

Undertoad · 02-09-2002, 07:14 PM

I need to run IIS to write some ASP for a client.

MaggieL · 02-09-2002, 07:31 PM

I guess it's too late to suggest NT4.0? Or Chilisoft (has an ASP engine for non-Windows environments).

I blush to admit I'm about to bring up an NT4.0 server here so my lifepartner can learn SQL Server and maybe some *cringe* VB.

Xugumad · 02-09-2002, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MaggieL
I guess it's too late to suggest NT4.0? Or Chilisoft (has an ASP engine for non-Windows environments).

I blush to admit I'm about to bring up an NT4.0 server here so my lifepartner can learn SQL Server and maybe some *cringe* VB.

IIRC, the Chilisoft environment doesn't fully emulate everything an ASP system provides; I remember a site trying to switch from an IIS/ASP environment to a Chilisoft ASP emulated host, with problems cropping up all over the place. Caveat emptor.

You may find Windows2000 reasonably satisfying. I haven't had any truly major issues with it, and it doesn't suffer from the whole registration problem that comes with XP. Since they're basically the same OS, it should be OK for you?

As an aside, some internal tweaks from 2k->XP have led to XP being *significantly* slower regarding certain filesystem-level operations. See if your vendor will let you exchange your copy of XP for 2k, maybe?

X.

Undertoad · 02-09-2002, 10:30 PM

Good idea, X, I'll try suggesting the swap. Thanks. As long as I get something with the whole web environment, I'll be good to go.

MaggieL · 02-10-2002, 01:13 PM

How very appropos...this just hit Slashdot. If you didn't carefully examine the XP Pro "Program Use Rights", (which is Newspeak for EULA) you might not know that :"you acknowledge and agree that Microsoft may automatically check the version of the Product and/or its components that you are utilizing and may provide upgrades or fixes to the Product that will be automatically downloaded to your Workstation Computer."

This is lunacy. The Beast of Redmond, as a condition for selling you their OS, reserves the right to implement changes to your system whenever it feels like. Remeber when Dilbert installed Win95 and got a dialog box saying "The installer has located your credit card number and is placing orders for products it thinks you need...please wait."?

mbpark · 02-10-2002, 01:54 PM

Besides,

The IIS5 that does ship with XP is not a pure IIS5 environment. Most of your underlying DLL files have changed.

Get Win2K pro, SP2, and the other 17MB of patches, and patch the living hell out of that box.

It will run better than XP would. I've played with MS too much to ever want to install MS software previous to Service Pack 1.

Meanwhile, my mother didn't listen and got XP Home on her new dell. Ouch.

I used XP, I qualified a bunch of apps that performed well under it, and it fixed the MFC42.DLL problem that has been the bane of my existence with every Windows version.

It even fixed a bunch of suspend-mode and APM problems, and older apps perform well under it.

Would I use it for a server? Hell no. Do I use it now? See previous answer. It's a nice OS for people that need to run Access 97 and Foxpro apps next to Office XP Pro and Visio 2002, but it's not for me.

Besides, I'm just starting to get really good with 2000 Pro and Server, as crazy as they are

.

However, you won't see me switching BIND over to XP from OpenBSD any time soon

Undertoad · 02-10-2002, 04:12 PM

Does Win2K pro have IIS4 as a part of it? No add'l add-ons?

mbpark · 02-10-2002, 04:54 PM

XP Pro comes with IIS 5, however it has the NT 5.1 DLL's behind it, instead of the NT5 (Win2K) DLL's.

ASP will still work fine, just that all the COM objects and such that you have to create will have to be compiled on a 2K box for them to run on a Win2K server because the DLL entry points and DLL enumerations change from version to version. We had this issue with NT4 deployments and Win2K servers, not to mention that we even make sure everyone has the same SP levels and hotfixes!

It's a crazy crazy thing.

Mitch

02-08-2002, 04:43 PM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Win XP: worst OS ever How long did it take my pre-loaded XP Pro to become corrupt and unbootable? One hour. An accidental reboot during a Windows Update, and a file is listed as corrupt, preventing the system from booting. Retrieving that file from the CDRom results in nothing but complaints. Now, re-installing, I get this stinker: Setup cannot copy the file: wmvcore.dll So now it's complaining that there may be a problem with my install CD. I doubt it, really. There may be a problem with their copy prevention.

02-09-2002, 04:14 PM	#6
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Why do you want XP in the first place???? __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

02-09-2002, 07:31 PM	#8
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	I guess it's too late to suggest NT4.0? Or Chilisoft (has an ASP engine for non-Windows environments). I blush to admit I'm about to bring up an NT4.0 server here so my lifepartner can learn SQL Server and maybe some cringe VB. __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

02-10-2002, 01:13 PM	#11
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	How very appropos...this just hit Slashdot. If you didn't carefully examine the XP Pro "Program Use Rights", (which is Newspeak for EULA) you might not know that :"you acknowledge and agree that Microsoft may automatically check the version of the Product and/or its components that you are utilizing and may provide upgrades or fixes to the Product that will be automatically downloaded to your Workstation Computer." This is lunacy. The Beast of Redmond, as a condition for selling you their OS, reserves the right to implement changes to your system whenever it feels like. Remeber when Dilbert installed Win95 and got a dialog box saying "The installer has located your credit card number and is placing orders for products it thinks you need...please wait."? __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

02-10-2002, 01:54 PM	#12
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	XP IIS not good Besides, The IIS5 that does ship with XP is not a pure IIS5 environment. Most of your underlying DLL files have changed. Get Win2K pro, SP2, and the other 17MB of patches, and patch the living hell out of that box. It will run better than XP would. I've played with MS too much to ever want to install MS software previous to Service Pack 1. Meanwhile, my mother didn't listen and got XP Home on her new dell. Ouch. I used XP, I qualified a bunch of apps that performed well under it, and it fixed the MFC42.DLL problem that has been the bane of my existence with every Windows version. It even fixed a bunch of suspend-mode and APM problems, and older apps perform well under it. Would I use it for a server? Hell no. Do I use it now? See previous answer. It's a nice OS for people that need to run Access 97 and Foxpro apps next to Office XP Pro and Visio 2002, but it's not for me. Besides, I'm just starting to get really good with 2000 Pro and Server, as crazy as they are . However, you won't see me switching BIND over to XP from OpenBSD any time soon

02-08-2002, 04:54 PM	#2
dave Guest Posts: n/a	HP-U<b>XP</b> - Worst OS ever. Cave in and buy a Mac. Promise you won't regret it if you really give it a chance.

02-09-2002, 08:53 AM	#5
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	No sir. That was my old problem. I assumed that I had hardware issues that XP couldn't manage, so I ordered an entirely new system with XP pre-loaded by the vendor. All I can say is: don't lose power during a Windows Update.

02-09-2002, 07:14 PM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I need to run IIS to write some ASP for a client.

02-09-2002, 10:30 PM	#10
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Good idea, X, I'll try suggesting the swap. Thanks. As long as I get something with the whole web environment, I'll be good to go.

02-10-2002, 04:12 PM	#13
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Does Win2K pro have IIS4 as a part of it? No add'l add-ons?

02-10-2002, 04:54 PM	#14
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	IIS 5 with NT 5.1 DLLs XP Pro comes with IIS 5, however it has the NT 5.1 DLL's behind it, instead of the NT5 (Win2K) DLL's. ASP will still work fine, just that all the COM objects and such that you have to create will have to be compiled on a 2K box for them to run on a Win2K server because the DLL entry points and DLL enumerations change from version to version. We had this issue with NT4 deployments and Win2K servers, not to mention that we even make sure everyone has the same SP levels and hotfixes! It's a crazy crazy thing. Mitch

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