Mozilla, Internet Explorer and the Web Browsing Experience

02-11-2002, 08:40 AM

Well, after reading Tony's post about the text bugs having been fixed, I downloaded a new nightly Mozilla build. I installed it in ~/moz-install - you know, so it wouldn't mess with my good, working install of 0.9.6 (RPM's of 0.9.7 and 0.9.8 had both installed binaries that segfaulted for me). Well, lo and behold, after installing it, my 0.9.6 binary did not work. Just wouldn't fire up. Reinstallations of the binary did nothing for me. It's probably a problem in my ~/.mozilla directory, which I think I'm going to axe tonight and try 0.9.8. In the mean time...

I've been using the nightly for regular browsing. It's alright, I guess. I had to re-do my bookmarks (it somehow managed to wipe those too - uh, okay), but other than that, it's fine. There's still a host of annoying little bugs in Mozilla. It's getting there, I guess. I just have to wonder when it will be done. By done, I mean "polished". I want it to just work. That will be spectacular. Really spectacular. Anyway, a nice example of one of the little quirks - the text in the location bar is now up too high. I'm not sure if this is exclusive to my nightly build or an across-the-board kinda deal. And since it's a nightly, I can't really complain. But it's little shit like that. It makes me want to use...

Internet Explorer for Macintosh is the most standards-compliant browser, according to W3C. Many people would find this curious, but it seems to be true - I've not come across a page I couldn't view with that browser. It also happens to render pages beautifully. Using that web browser, where the entire display is a PDF (basically), is like stroking velvet. It just looks amazing. It's also fast (though my machine is no slouch) and pretty stable - in other words, it rarely crashes. When it does, it's usually the Flash plugin that brings it down. Everything else works great.

I mention it because I'm considering just using my PowerMac to web browse. This is decidedly less convenient than using my regular workhorse box, as I can't really copy and paste between the two. But the web browsing experience is so much better! Internet Explorer for Macintosh is the best browser I've ever used. Sorry to say it, but it's true.

For the time being, I think I'll do most of my browsing on the Macintosh, but obviously I'll still use Mozilla on tier when someone sends me a link or whatever. But I anxiously await a 1.0 release of Mozilla... maybe one day it will catch up.

Undertoad · 02-11-2002, 09:49 AM

All the items you're talking about are stored in profiles, for which it's generally understood (although not communicated well) that any particular nightly will blow away. I've had success with saving the bookmarks and some other data in \windows\application data\mozilla\profiles, restoring some of those files in the newly installed profiles directory each time. Of course on the Mac this data will be stored elsewhere.

It is also generally expected that the nightly builds will be buggy as this is where new code is being checked in every day. Running 2002020803, I have see a few, including two crashes.

02-11-2002, 11:22 AM

I'm on Linux, and it should be in ~/.mozilla I guess. Oh well.

I haven't had any crashes, but little quirks are certainly annoying. I'm going to try and get 0.9.8 working tonight, and if that fails, revert back to trusty 0.9.6 and wait for 0.9.9 to try again.

One day...

matt · 02-11-2002, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dhamsaic
Internet Explorer for Macintosh is the best browser I've ever used. Sorry to say it, but it's true.

Agreed. I'm a big PC geek, but IE for Mac rocks my fucking socks off. I LOVE how you can minimize the <, >, X, ... buttons at the top into the little sidebar. Why can't we do that with Windows? Y'arggh..

That Guy · 02-11-2002, 01:02 PM

Opera for winslows is great. The quick keys are great, you can set preferences for everything, built-in search bars for the web and current page. The one thing I loved is the option to refuse pop-ups. That's great when you're surfing for boobies

Exploder sucks, can't really vouch for it on MacOS. On the linux box, I had trouble with Opera the first time. I haven't tried it again now that the card is working, so I'm just using the default Nutscrape.

02-11-2002, 01:22 PM

All things considered, I dig Mozilla. You can refuse certain popups - for example, onload & onunload, etc. However, I'll be a lot happier with it when it launches instantaneously (IE on my PowerMac launches instantaneously), has a faster GUI (someone needs to build some lightweight skins for it or something), renders pages beautifully and has all the bugs hammered out. Bug free software is possible - it just takes forever in the open-source world.

MaggieL · 02-11-2002, 01:34 PM

Dillo is the ultimate lightweight browser. The binary is around 200k. There's lots of stuff it won't do (like frames and Javascript), but what it does do it does very well and very, very quickly. I keep it lurking on my Enlightenment menu...it's cheap to keep.

juju · 02-12-2002, 04:10 AM

Hey, don't forget the mighty Konq! :]

juju · 02-12-2002, 04:14 AM

One other thing that i'll mention -- Mozilla and Junkbuster do not play well together. I recommend <a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/ijbswa/">this</a> newer forked version of Junkbuster, as it supports the necessary HTTP v1.1. This version works great, but be sure to comment out the stupid perl regular expressions.

jaguar · 02-12-2002, 04:25 AM

MOzilla is good, but buggy
Linux is good, but on desktop, iwhtout hours aponhours, its buggy.
I'm only using windows on my desktop now (2k, not XP), it simply is an easier desktop playtform, i've got linux on the server ,its simply a better platform for that. In the end i think it simply comes down to use the best for the platform, windows, for all its many, many flaws, simply is a more established desktop platform. Particuarly with desktops i've found its not the big things that count, its the little things that make the difference in the end, ability to customise stuff, ease of use, gui details.
I'm totally offtopic and losing coherence by the second, i'm gonna shut up now.

02-11-2002, 08:40 AM	#1
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Mozilla, Internet Explorer and the Web Browsing Experience Well, after reading Tony's post about the text bugs having been fixed, I downloaded a new nightly Mozilla build. I installed it in ~/moz-install - you know, so it wouldn't mess with my good, working install of 0.9.6 (RPM's of 0.9.7 and 0.9.8 had both installed binaries that segfaulted for me). Well, lo and behold, after installing it, my 0.9.6 binary <b>did not work</b>. Just wouldn't fire up. Reinstallations of the binary did nothing for me. It's probably a problem in my ~/.mozilla directory, which I think I'm going to axe tonight and try 0.9.8. In the mean time... I've been using the nightly for regular browsing. It's alright, I guess. I had to re-do my bookmarks (it somehow managed to wipe those too - uh, okay), but other than that, it's fine. There's still a host of annoying little bugs in Mozilla. It's getting there, I guess. I just have to wonder when it will be done. By done, I mean "polished". I want it to just <b>work</b>. That will be spectacular. Really spectacular. Anyway, a nice example of one of the little quirks - the text in the location bar is now up too high. I'm not sure if this is exclusive to my nightly build or an across-the-board kinda deal. And since it's a nightly, I can't really complain. But it's little shit like that. It makes me want to use... Internet Explorer for Macintosh is the most standards-compliant browser, according to W3C. Many people would find this curious, but it seems to be true - I've not come across a page I couldn't view with that browser. It also happens to render pages <b>beautifully</b>. Using that web browser, where the entire display is a PDF (basically), is like stroking velvet. It just looks amazing. It's also fast (though my machine is no slouch) and pretty stable - in other words, it rarely crashes. When it does, it's usually the Flash plugin that brings it down. Everything else works great. I mention it because I'm considering just using my PowerMac to web browse. This is decidedly less convenient than using my regular workhorse box, as I can't really copy and paste between the two. But the web browsing experience is so much better! Internet Explorer for Macintosh is the best browser I've ever used. Sorry to say it, but it's true. For the time being, I think I'll do most of my browsing on the Macintosh, but obviously I'll still use Mozilla on <b>tier</b> when someone sends me a link or whatever. But I anxiously await a 1.0 release of Mozilla... maybe one day it will catch up.

02-11-2002, 01:22 PM	#6
dave Guest Posts: n/a	All things considered, I dig Mozilla. You can refuse certain popups - for example, onload & onunload, etc. However, I'll be a lot happier with it when it launches instantaneously (IE on my PowerMac launches <b>instantaneously</b>), has a faster GUI (someone needs to build some lightweight skins for it or something), renders pages beautifully and has all the bugs hammered out. Bug free software <b>is</b> possible - it just takes forever in the open-source world.

02-11-2002, 01:34 PM	#7
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	Dillo is the ultimate lightweight browser. The binary is around 200k. There's lots of stuff it won't do (like frames and Javascript), but what it does do it does very well and very, very quickly. I keep it lurking on my Enlightenment menu...it's cheap to keep. __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

02-12-2002, 04:10 AM	#8
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Konqueror Hey, don't forget the mighty Konq! :]

02-12-2002, 04:14 AM	#9
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	One other thing that i'll mention -- Mozilla and Junkbuster do not play well together. I recommend <a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/ijbswa/">this</a> newer forked version of Junkbuster, as it supports the necessary HTTP v1.1. This version works great, but be sure to comment out the stupid perl regular expressions. Last edited by juju; 02-12-2002 at 04:16 AM.

02-11-2002, 09:49 AM	#2
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	All the items you're talking about are stored in profiles, for which it's generally understood (although not communicated well) that any particular nightly will blow away. I've had success with saving the bookmarks and some other data in \windows\application data\mozilla\profiles, restoring some of those files in the newly installed profiles directory each time. Of course on the Mac this data will be stored elsewhere. It is also generally expected that the nightly builds will be buggy as this is where new code is being checked in every day. Running 2002020803, I have see a few, including two crashes.

02-11-2002, 11:22 AM	#3
dave Guest Posts: n/a	I'm on Linux, and it should be in ~/.mozilla I guess. Oh well. I haven't had any crashes, but little quirks are certainly annoying. I'm going to try and get 0.9.8 working tonight, and if that fails, revert back to trusty 0.9.6 and wait for 0.9.9 to try again. One day...

02-11-2002, 01:02 PM	#5
That Guy He who reads, sometimes writes. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: at the keyboard Posts: 791	Opera for winslows is great. The quick keys are great, you can set preferences for everything, built-in search bars for the web and current page. The one thing I loved is the option to refuse pop-ups. That's great when you're surfing for boobies Exploder sucks, can't really vouch for it on MacOS. On the linux box, I had trouble with Opera the first time. I haven't tried it again now that the card is working, so I'm just using the default Nutscrape.

02-12-2002, 04:25 AM	#10
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	MOzilla is good, but buggy Linux is good, but on desktop, iwhtout hours aponhours, its buggy. I'm only using windows on my desktop now (2k, not XP), it simply is an easier desktop playtform, i've got linux on the server ,its simply a better platform for that. In the end i think it simply comes down to use the best for the platform, windows, for all its many, many flaws, simply is a more established desktop platform. Particuarly with desktops i've found its not the big things that count, its the little things that make the difference in the end, ability to customise stuff, ease of use, gui details. I'm totally offtopic and losing coherence by the second, i'm gonna shut up now. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

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