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Old 12-09-2006, 07:04 PM   #1
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Football (Soccer)

Anybody here interested in football (soccer)? Particularly the English Premiership?
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Old 12-09-2006, 08:03 PM   #2
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WHIP picked Chelsea to win it and says nothing can prevent that.
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Old 12-10-2006, 08:47 AM   #3
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That is correct! It may seem like a two horse race, but there's really only one running.
More interesting things are happening throughout the premiership though.
Sheffield United could drop all their players and play with a high school team and still avoid relegation. The clashes between sheffield Wednesday and United cannot go on anymore and they will always be sepeated by a division,so that they should never have to play against each other in a league math again.

Liverpool remains the second best team in England and prove that in the Champions league.
Lets be real, The Champion League is EVERYTHING in european football.
Individual leagues are simply there for qualification towards the CL.

Its ever level of the game as well, economical(We can sit down and argue about that one as most people have a lack of vision of how money is really made in soccer franchises).
The great teams of Europe will litterally go to a league's weekend match to lose it when there's an upcoming champions league game to play.
It seem like Wenger hasn't learnt that lesson yet, and has paid dearly for that mistake in the past, but it looks like he's still making the same mistakes.
Arsenal is doomed with him at the head.
Man Utd on the other hand has gone through a terrible couple years, holding one of the weakest middle lines in the premiership, but thats all changing now, United is rebuilding, and from what i can see, it looks like some excellent work.And it would have to be, for the standard that Chelsea has set is beyond reach.
But don't be expecting UTD to be challenging this year....it is a false illusion.
A team takes a few years to build, Chelsea has gone through those years, United is on its first.
The Spurs are looking really solid, and may prove worthy of a Champions league spot. Aston Villa as well, but it looks like it may take 1 more year for them to gel perfectly.
Charlton should manage to stay.
City, despite the names it holds, does not look worthy of staying inthe premiership, although the may prove me wrong in the nick of time.
Watford's falling obviously.
Wigan! now there's a team to look at! the one and onl exampe of a team with a strange economical policy that allowed them to jump from division to division, until they reached the premiership, and now have shined ever since.
The contracts...if you noticed the team while they were in the 2nd division, ou'd see that the players contracts were tiny, its like they had this thing where, the would only sign players that agreed on the minimum salary.
When the were in the first division, their players were getting payed less than most teams in the 2nd division, and still they managed to progress.
Teams will attempt to follow Wigan's example.

>And whats this about West ham????????????
Jewish money coming in? Huge players on their way.
Shall the Premiership be dominated by teams from London?
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Old 12-10-2006, 02:02 PM   #4
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It is a two-horse race. Chelsea aren't as good as they were last year, and while they're probably still favourites, they aren't guaranteed to win it. Manchester United (my team) are playing better than they have since we last won the title, and while it's true that the centre of midfield is a bit lightweight, Scholes and Carrick are talented, and our wingers (Giggs and Ronaldo) are the best in the world. The defence looks solid and we're scoring goals. The biggest problem will be the small size of the squad, I think. I'm not saying United will win the league, but we have a good chance.
Liverpool aren't the second best team in England, probably fourth; they're not good enough away from home; only one away win in the league so far. Same problem with Spurs.
Watford and Charlton look certain to go down, along with another team, maybe West Ham, it depends whether they buy players in January.
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Old 12-10-2006, 02:06 PM   #5
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King, what's your opinion of FC united? Lot of my Man U fans have been paying it quite a lot of attention.
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Old 12-10-2006, 02:13 PM   #6
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Their doing quite well for a club of that size; they were promoted in their first season. I don't wish them any particular harm, but at the same time, I don't really support them. I can understand why the fans were angry after the Glazer takeover, but I think they should have stuck by the club anyway.
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Old 12-10-2006, 03:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King
It is a two-horse race. Chelsea aren't as good as they were last year, and while they're probably still favourites, they aren't guaranteed to win it. Manchester United (my team) are playing better than they have since we last won the title, and while it's true that the centre of midfield is a bit lightweight, Scholes and Carrick are talented, and our wingers (Giggs and Ronaldo) are the best in the world. The defence looks solid and we're scoring goals. The biggest problem will be the small size of the squad, I think. I'm not saying United will win the league, but we have a good chance.
Liverpool aren't the second best team in England, probably fourth; they're not good enough away from home; only one away win in the league so far. Same problem with Spurs.
Watford and Charlton look certain to go down, along with another team, maybe West Ham, it depends whether they buy players in January.
I must stress for you to take a closer look at Liverpool, and understand that this is a work in the making.
There is no doubt whatsoever that the ONLY thing that Liverpool is looking at this year is the Champions League! They are by far, the 2nd English favorites within the competition.
The team Liverpool was 5 years ago, is NOT the team that has been put together since then. Liverpool's managment has been the absolute elite amongst European teams, buying young talent with EXCELLENT scouting!
That is the way to build a team, and Liverpool started this piece of art by working on the defence. There is no better place to start.
What seperates Man UTD and Liverpool in reality, is that Liverpool is a team 5 years in the making, and Man UTD is a team in its develpoment, too many changes, it sets them a step back as far as Europe is concerned.
The Poterntial is obviously there, but it will not come into effect until the team has had a year or so to gel.
Europe is not England. Look southerly at Lyon (Lyonnais), there are superior teams in Europe than Man Utd and Liverpool, forget about Arsenal.
With Chelsea of course the exception!
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Old 12-10-2006, 03:20 PM   #8
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Watford and Charlton look certain to go down, along with another team, maybe West Ham, it depends whether they buy players in January.
Watford looks certain, yes.
I can't say the same thing about Charlton though.
There are reaons why I would wager on them being in the premiership next year.

Would you believe the same thing about West Ham if Beckham played at the franchise come january?
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Old 12-10-2006, 03:33 PM   #9
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I'm not saying Liverpool aren't a good team, but being good in Europe and being good in the Premiership are 2 different things; just look at Arsenal last year, poor in the league (by their standards), but got to the Champions League final and could've won. Liverpool are definetly better in Europe than they are domestically; their manager Benitez is more suited to Europe. Their defence isn't that good; they've had big problems with their centre-halves this season, United, Chelsea and Arsenal all have better defences. They're not really 5 years in the making; Benitez has only been there 2 and a half years. I agree that they've bought well (Kuyt, Agger, Garcia), but they've also had some bad signings under Benitez (Reina, Nunez, Josemi, Pellegrino). I think United are more of a complete team, we're only lacking a more consistent goalscorer and a box-to-box midfielder. Liverpool may well do better than United in Europe this year; we're more focused on the Premiership, and our tactics are too cautious in Europe. Lyon are very good, and I think they'll do well in Europe this season, although I'm not sure they're better than United.
Out of interest, what leagues do you watch W.HI.P, and who do you support?
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Old 12-10-2006, 03:40 PM   #10
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I think Charlton are pretty likely to go down. They got hammered yesterday by Spurs, their manager is inexperienced, and their squad isn't very good. Their performance this year shows how good their old manager Alan Curbishley was.
It's difficult to know what the problem is at West Ham. They've got a good squad on paper, and a decent manager in Alan Pardew, but it just isn't working for them this year. There's been speculation that the arrivals of Tevez and Mascherano have unsettled them, but I don't think this is a big enough reason. They're another team who are poor away from home. If Beckham came it would make a difference, but I think it would take more than that at the moment.
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Old 12-10-2006, 06:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King
I'm not saying Liverpool aren't a good team, but being good in Europe and being good in the Premiership are 2 different things; just look at Arsenal last year, poor in the league (by their standards), but got to the Champions League final and could've won. Liverpool are definetly better in Europe than they are domestically; their manager Benitez is more suited to Europe. Their defence isn't that good; they've had big problems with their centre-halves this season, United, Chelsea and Arsenal all have better defences. They're not really 5 years in the making; Benitez has only been there 2 and a half years. I agree that they've bought well (Kuyt, Agger, Garcia), but they've also had some bad signings under Benitez (Reina, Nunez, Josemi, Pellegrino). I think United are more of a complete team, we're only lacking a more consistent goalscorer and a box-to-box midfielder. Liverpool may well do better than United in Europe this year; we're more focused on the Premiership, and our tactics are too cautious in Europe. Lyon are very good, and I think they'll do well in Europe this season, although I'm not sure they're better than United.

First of all, this Liverpool ERA, does not begin with Benitez.
5 Years ago, Liverpool had a serious defencive problem.
The Problem was caused by the way the team was being managed.
At that point, KEY players came to Liverpool, and specific work was done as a team, strategically. The results showed immediatly in the goals against.
From that point and other key purchases pre-Benitez were made, and from then on given to benitez to perfect. I do agree that Liverpool is a tad weaker than last year, but nevertheless, Liverpool remains a great team, and a champions league contender despite specific super powers who seem to have the uper hand like Chelsea and Lyonnais.
The abscence of Italy who will most likely not make a mark this year, despite their general dominance of European football since the econimic changes within Europe.
A swiff mention of Bayern Munich is a must, as they have systematically picked up all the precious diamonds within Germany.

Quote:
Out of interest, what leagues do you watch W.HI.P, and who do you support
I used to watch all European leagues very close up, but my close examination of the NFL(American Football) has me at a distance of the weaker leagues.

Overall, I support Lazio and Lyon!

I've supported Werder bremen since the 80's.
The good, bad, and unbelievably amazing, I've been a fan of Chelsea.
I'm a supporter of the one and only full-Basque franchise in Spain. (Bilbao)
In other leagues, I may have more than one team I support, like hibs and Aberdeen in Scotland and so on.
Exchange with me yours if you may.
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Old 12-11-2006, 12:23 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by W.HI.P
First of all, this Liverpool ERA, does not begin with Benitez,
I think it does really. Of Liverpoolís current regulars, only Finnan, Hyypia, Riise, Gerrard and Carragher were not bought by Benitez.
Quote:
5 Years ago, Liverpool had a serious defencive problem.
Not really. In the 01-02 season, Liverpool had the best defence in the Premiership, conceding only 30 goals. In 02-03, they conceded 41, but this was still the second best defence in the Premiership, better than those of the top 3 teams that year.

I think you overrate Liverpool slightly, but I agree that they have a good chance of winning the Champions League. Iíll be amazed if an English team doesnít at least get to the final.

I only really support Manchester United and England. Iíve been to watch my hometown team Accrington Stanley in the past, and I still keep an eye out for their results. I also quite like Inter.
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Old 12-11-2006, 01:18 PM   #13
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You're being to specific with the years, 5-6 ..whats the difference?
I'm speaking off my memory, not looking at charts.
If you were to look for yourself , you would see for yourself and understand without making specific remarks.
Liverpool obviously had a defencive problem allowing 49 goals against.
Arsenal that year had merely 17.
Liverpools defence was worse than teams like Sheffield Wednesday(42), Derby County(45) and Everton(47).
Your reference to Liverpools great defence in the 00-01 season, is proving my point exactly on how liverpool began working with their defence.

You're obviously missing the point if you can't pinpoint Liverpool's years of weak defence, and the work that was done to fix it which i was refering to.

I'm not overestimating liverpool in the slightest, I don't like the franchise, I never have.
I do however look at each team without wearing blinkers as fans tend to do.

You being a man utd fan, and not recognizing how much work needs to be done,
will result in your disapointment this year, and most possibly next year.
The plans for Man Utd being great as a franchise is scheduled for the 08-09 season.
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Old 12-11-2006, 01:21 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by W.HI.P
First of all, this Liverpool ERA, does not begin with Benitez,
I think it does really. Of Liverpool’s current regulars, only Finnan, Hyypia, Riise, Gerrard and Carragher were not bought by Benitez.

Who TF do you think it is that has brought Liverpool to greatness if not these specific pre-Benitez players you mention?????????????????????????????
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Old 12-11-2006, 01:56 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by W.HI.P
You're being to specific with the years, 5-6 ..whats the difference?
I'm speaking off my memory, not looking at charts.
If you were to look for yourself , you would see for yourself and understand without making specific remarks.
Liverpool obviously had a defencive problem allowing 49 goals against.
Arsenal that year had merely 17.
Liverpools defence was worse than teams like Sheffield Wednesday(42), Derby County(45) and Everton(47).
Your reference to Liverpools great defence in the 00-01 season, is proving my point exactly on how liverpool began working with their defence.
As far as I can tell, this is the 97-98 season, when I guess their defence wasn't that good. It did improve to be the best in the Premiership around 2000-2002, but it isn't as good now as it was then. Hyypia is well past his best. A future defence of Riise-Agger-Carragher-Finnan could be good, but it would have a long way to go before it could be considerd best in the league again. Obviuosly some of the pre-Benitez players were important in Liverpool's European success, particularly Gerrard and Carragher, but the team he inherited wasn't perfect, signings such as Alonso and Garcia had to be made. And it isn't perfect now. Nor am I claiming United's is either. We need a more consistent centre forward than Saha, and we need a box-to-box midfielder. I'm not trying to wind you up or anything, I respect your opinion and I think you've made some good points, I'm just not quite as convinced by Liverpool as you are. However, that doesn't mean I think they are a bad team, as they clearly aren't.
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