Chief Illiniwek

freshnesschronic · 02-21-2007, 10:21 PM

So today I went to the last U of I basketball game where Chief Illiniwek performed during half time. The NCAA has banned him; read about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Illiniwek.

I can understand both sides, like we are honoring the Illini but it's a sacreligious practice. It doesn't really affect me and I am not passionate either way; I just am disappointed we can't be the Fighting Illini anymore. That was coined during WWII when we sent off our boys to the European theatre, not about hostile Native Americans. Anyway I just hope we get a better name than, let's say, the Illinois....Illinoisians.

piercehawkeye45 · 02-21-2007, 10:28 PM

I can not argue the banning of Chief Illniwek but the "Fighting Illini" should stay. Or at least change it to the "Illini".

WabUfvot5 · 02-22-2007, 05:44 AM

I can see why a group wouldn't like certain mascots / team names. Some are downright racist, like the Washington Redskins. Chief Illiniwek probably crosses the line. Yet some of this seems way too touchy.

One school had the Braves mascot and name replaced because it offended Native Americans. This despite that the area was originally inhabited by Natives and there was no bad intent. Another school had to drop the name Kossacks because a few Jewish folk were offended the Cossacks of Eurasia fought with the Jews. Newsflash: they fought lots of folk. Cost the school big bucks to change names because of a flimsy objection.

Will Christians object to the The Minnesota Vikings because the Vikings raided churches ages ago? Sad to say I bet people even complain about teams like the Cleveland Browns :\ I just don't get why some of this stuff is taken as a direct insult.

SquadRat1 · 02-22-2007, 11:13 AM

But, where will we stop? What's next? Changing the name of the White House? Or the Red River? Or West Virginia (cause Virginia is further west?) I mean everything seems to bother everyone!

Life sucks! Get a helmet!

bluecuracao · 02-22-2007, 11:45 AM

One mascot gets banned since...I don't know when, and it's like the world is coming to an end.

But since the question's been asked, what *I'd* like to see banned next is that awful "Cleveland Indian" caricature. Gawd, is it ever obnoxious.

freshnesschronic · 02-22-2007, 12:54 PM

Yeah I'll put up two examples for both sides.

Pro Chief - I mean if Notre Dame can get away at being the Fightin' Irish with a little old leprechaun in a angry fighting pose why can't we have the much less derogatory version of the great Chief? I don't see any Irish getting angry cause the stereotype that they are hostile little midgets.

Anti-Chief - On the religious aspect; the dance the students learn to be the Chief is partly a religious dance. It would be comparable to a priest leading a mass or Jesus being crucified-----on a football/basketball field. We don't know much about Native American religion, so most people don't know the significance of the dance.

Take your stance.

bluecuracao · 02-22-2007, 01:33 PM

Actually, there are Irish people who are angry about that.

Shawnee123 · 02-22-2007, 01:50 PM

Yeah, the Pittsburgh Steelers make steelworkers look like gum-chompin' dirty miners.

The Chicago Cubs are unfair to small furry young bears.

The Dallas Cowboys dishonor those who fought and died to steal land from the Native Americans.

The Purdue Boilermakers make a mockery of shot glasses dropped into beer mugs.

Don't even get me started on the Trojans.

(I'm part Shawnee and not offended by American Indian imagery. It doesn't affect me or how I feel about my heritage, nor do I think it promotes hate and intolerance to Native Americans. That was all accomplished a long time ago. I say get over it.)

ferret88 · 02-22-2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquadRat1

I mean everything seems to bother everyone!

Life sucks! Get a helmet!

A-freaking-MEN!!! You pretty much can't do or say ANYthing without "offending" someone. For crying out f*cking LOUD!

(Forgive me if there is another thread around here wherein this rant should be placed.)
Some US schools are not allowing teachers to use red pens to grade because some poor kid's (poor sutdent's) feelings might be hurt due to all the mistakes he/she made being so obviously pointed out!??! WTF?!?!

Some schools are no longer allowing competitive physical activities (PE) because someone has to lose!?!?! Again, WTF?!?!

I thought school was supposed to, in addition to teaching stuff, prepare kids for the real world. Seems like it's merely setting them up for a huge shock and some major therapy-requiring disappointment.
The real world isn't all fuzzy warm happy feelings.
You must face the consequences when you make errors (unless you are in NM and the error is in judgement when you decided to get behind the wheel drunk, drive the wrong way on the interstate and end up killing a family at Christmas and you are not incarcerated because you "had a headache" and "other cars managed to avoid you," but thats another rant.)
Sometimes the other guy wins and you lose. It's gonna happen.

It offends ME that I have to try to be so careful about not offending someone. Maybe I ought to try getting banning things banned. That sounds logical.

*Steps off the soapbox, kicks it aside, squirts lighter fluid on it, tosses lit match at it and walks away.*

ferret88 · 02-22-2007, 02:17 PM

Sorry if that offended anyone. Hope I don't get banned.

piercehawkeye45 · 02-22-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

(I'm part Shawnee and not offended by American Indian imagery. It doesn't affect me or how I feel about my heritage, nor do I think it promotes hate and intolerance to Native Americans. That was all accomplished a long time ago. I say get over it.)

It only takes one to make it an issue...

I would personally be more offended if everything thinks that I would be offended if someone made a mascot of a Native American when I could really care less.

bluecuracao · 02-22-2007, 03:18 PM

Ferret, the PETSB (People for the Ethical Treatment of Soap Boxes) are gonna get you, man.

freshnesschronic · 02-22-2007, 10:23 PM

Erm, that wasn't really on topic was it?

xoxoxoBruce · 02-22-2007, 11:23 PM

Well, it was a lot closer than most threadjacks. It was also right on the money in my opinion.

ferret88 · 02-23-2007, 07:06 AM

Sorry. After I ranted I realised that it was kinda off topic. But the idea is kinda there.

Thanks Bruce.

02-21-2007, 10:21 PM	#1
freshnesschronic Professor Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,555	Chief Illiniwek So today I went to the last U of I basketball game where Chief Illiniwek performed during half time. The NCAA has banned him; read about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Illiniwek. I can understand both sides, like we are honoring the Illini but it's a sacreligious practice. It doesn't really affect me and I am not passionate either way; I just am disappointed we can't be the Fighting Illini anymore. That was coined during WWII when we sent off our boys to the European theatre, not about hostile Native Americans. Anyway I just hope we get a better name than, let's say, the Illinois....Illinoisians.

02-22-2007, 01:50 PM	#8
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Yeah, the Pittsburgh Steelers make steelworkers look like gum-chompin' dirty miners. The Chicago Cubs are unfair to small furry young bears. The Dallas Cowboys dishonor those who fought and died to steal land from the Native Americans. The Purdue Boilermakers make a mockery of shot glasses dropped into beer mugs. Don't even get me started on the Trojans. (I'm part Shawnee and not offended by American Indian imagery. It doesn't affect me or how I feel about my heritage, nor do I think it promotes hate and intolerance to Native Americans. That was all accomplished a long time ago. I say get over it.) __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

02-22-2007, 11:23 PM	#14
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Well, it was a lot closer than most threadjacks. It was also right on the money in my opinion. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-21-2007, 10:28 PM	#2
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	I can not argue the banning of Chief Illniwek but the "Fighting Illini" should stay. Or at least change it to the "Illini".

02-22-2007, 05:44 AM	#3
WabUfvot5 Operations Operative Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 634	I can see why a group wouldn't like certain mascots / team names. Some are downright racist, like the Washington Redskins. Chief Illiniwek probably crosses the line. Yet some of this seems way too touchy. One school had the Braves mascot and name replaced because it offended Native Americans. This despite that the area was originally inhabited by Natives and there was no bad intent. Another school had to drop the name Kossacks because a few Jewish folk were offended the Cossacks of Eurasia fought with the Jews. Newsflash: they fought lots of folk. Cost the school big bucks to change names because of a flimsy objection. Will Christians object to the The Minnesota Vikings because the Vikings raided churches ages ago? Sad to say I bet people even complain about teams like the Cleveland Browns :\ I just don't get why some of this stuff is taken as a direct insult.

02-22-2007, 11:13 AM	#4
SquadRat1 Caste-Away Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 48	But, where will we stop? What's next? Changing the name of the White House? Or the Red River? Or West Virginia (cause Virginia is further west?) I mean everything seems to bother everyone! Life sucks! Get a helmet!

02-22-2007, 11:45 AM	#5
bluecuracao in a mood, not cupcake Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,034	One mascot gets banned since...I don't know when, and it's like the world is coming to an end. But since the question's been asked, what I'd like to see banned next is that awful "Cleveland Indian" caricature. Gawd, is it ever obnoxious.

02-22-2007, 12:54 PM	#6
freshnesschronic Professor Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,555	Yeah I'll put up two examples for both sides. Pro Chief - I mean if Notre Dame can get away at being the Fightin' Irish with a little old leprechaun in a angry fighting pose why can't we have the much less derogatory version of the great Chief? I don't see any Irish getting angry cause the stereotype that they are hostile little midgets. Anti-Chief - On the religious aspect; the dance the students learn to be the Chief is partly a religious dance. It would be comparable to a priest leading a mass or Jesus being crucified-----on a football/basketball field. We don't know much about Native American religion, so most people don't know the significance of the dance. Take your stance.

02-22-2007, 01:33 PM	#7
bluecuracao in a mood, not cupcake Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,034	Actually, there are Irish people who are angry about that.

02-22-2007, 02:17 PM	#10
ferret88 (This space left intentionally UN-blank.) Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 604	Sorry if that offended anyone. Hope I don't get banned.

02-22-2007, 03:18 PM	#12
bluecuracao in a mood, not cupcake Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,034	Ferret, the PETSB (People for the Ethical Treatment of Soap Boxes) are gonna get you, man.

02-22-2007, 10:23 PM	#13
freshnesschronic Professor Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,555	Erm, that wasn't really on topic was it?

02-23-2007, 07:06 AM	#15
ferret88 (This space left intentionally UN-blank.) Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 604	Sorry. After I ranted I realised that it was kinda off topic. But the idea is kinda there. Thanks Bruce.

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