Rudy, Rudy, Rudy.

[Ibby]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/11/16360/0636

There has to be an Orwell Corollary to Godwin's Law, one that says any discussion of today's Republican Party will invariably lead to comparisons with 1984. That's the easy place to run when trying to sum up the miasma of misdirection and jingoism that passes for Republican speech. But, damn it, when the candidates insist on treating the utterances of the Ministry of Truth as a textbook, what can you do?

Orwell

Giuliani

Freedom is about authority. Rudy not only follows the dissimulations of Orwell's fictional ministry, he exceeds them.

By the way, the other two pithy sayings on the side of the Ministry of Truth? "War is Peace" and "Ignorance is Strength."

[piercehawkeye45]

This has to be a joke...

Edit: Well here is the entire speech.

We constantly present the false impression that government can solve problems that government in America was designed not to solve. Families are significantly less important in the development of children today than they were 30 or 40 years ago. Religion has less influence than it did 30 or 40 years ago. Communities don't mean what they meant 30 or 40 years ago.

As Americans, we're not sure we share values. We're sometimes even afraid to use the word values. We talk about teaching ethics in schools -- people say, "What ethics? Whose ethics? Maybe we can't." And they confuse that with teaching of religion. And we are afraid to reaffirm the basics upon which a lawful and a decent society are based. We're almost embarrassed by it.

We look upon authority too often and focus over and over again, for 30 or 40 or 50 years, as if there is something wrong with authority. We see only the oppressive side of authority. Maybe it comes out of our history and our background. What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.

[ Interruption by someone in the audience. ]

You have free speech so I can be heard.

[ Another interruption. ]

At the core the struggle is philosophical. There are many, many things that can be done in law enforcement to protect us better. There are many things that can done to create a government that is more responsive and more helpful. The fact is that we're fooling people if we suggest to them the solutions to these very, very deep-seated problems are going to be found in government. . . .

The solutions are going to be found when we figure out as a society what our families are going to be like in the next century, and how maybe they are going to be different. They are going to have to be just as solid and just as strong in teaching every single youngster their responsibility for citizenship. We're going to find the answer when schools once again train citizens. Schools exist in America and have always existed to train responsible citizens of the United States of America.

If they don't do that, it's very hard to hold us together as a country, because it's shared values that hold us together. We're going to come through this when we realize that it's all about, ultimately, individual responsibility. That in fact the criminal act is about individual responsibility and the building of the respect for the law and ethics is also a matter of individual responsibility.

[Undertoad]

It took me 38 years to understand and more importantly, accept the concepts he's talking about.

(I was born in 1963 so maybe you can figure out what big event altered my way of thinking on that.)

He overstated it a little by using the word "about". But what he's really saying is that freedom is only possible in a civil society, otherwise it turns into a sort of mob rule in which the powerful limit freedoms through unlawful force.

Edit: now that PH added the context you see what I mean. Read Kos diaries at your own peril because those fuckers are well off the reservation and into their own little dreamland reality.

[piercehawkeye45]

Ok, I get and agree with the individual responsibility for a civil society leads to freedom thing but he worded parts of that very badly and his track record of government authority can be very contradicting to what he meant.

[Undertoad]

You should find comfort in his speech. What he's talking about is unifying the culture around shared values, taught values, and specifically NOT forced ones. This is a guy in favor of civil unions and against religion in public schools. The shared values he wants us to unify around are the traditional sectarian American values. He does it through education and not through force. What's not to like?

We're going to come through this when we realize that it's all about, ultimately, individual responsibility.

Takes a lot of hard work to turn that statement into a fascist nightmare.

The Kos diarists are doing that hard work. He's got an R by his name and he's the leader, therefore he is the bitter enemy and must be brought down by whatever means necessary. Paint him with the worst possible colors because we only have 15 months left.

Both sides will be doing this and I urge you to resist the temptation to pick sides as if it were a football game. That way lies madness.

[fargon]

Freedom does not necessarily mean the ability to do what you want. But is a responsibility to maintain the lives of your family, and your country.
We are responsible for our own safety, and well being. Don't think that this means rushing out and joining the Marines. It means being accountable for your actions, by conserving resources and being aware of what is going on around you. This is important for the security and continued safety of family and friends, do not stop living, do the things that you did before 911 just be more aware and thoughtful. When the dog barks don't just holler "shut up" but go check it out.

Remember that we are Americans, or British, or whatever first, and then whatever group second.

[yesman065]

Right on Toad - It is very difficult for "the general public" to ascertain what can and cannot be believed. We used to be able to respect and TRUST that which was reported to us. Since the onset of the internet and the ability of anyone to "write" virtually anything they want, it is increasinly easy to be misled - especially if the views of the reader are constantly reinforced by misleading or even blatantly false "information" passed off as reporting or fact. Both sides are guilty of that - unfortunately both sides seem to have a more blatant disregard for the ultimate truth, whatever that is.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by yesman065

It is very difficult for "the general public" to ascertain what can and cannot be believed. We used to be able to respect and TRUST that which was reported to us.

It used to be we didn't have much choice. It used to be we didn't have anyway to check. It used to be we were lied to constantly.... for the convenience of the leaders or the press.

50 years ago, one of my schoolmates murdered his brother and parents. Of course everyone in the class gathered every scrap of news, complete with police quotes, gathered by far flung friends and relatives. About the only thing that was consistent was the body count, even the names got botched.

At the time I figured it was just because it was a small town incident and rather inconsequential to the national course of events. But as time went by, the same nonsense cropped up in nationally important events. We now know that the press has been selectively reporting the facts, sometimes at the governments behest and sometimes of there own volition.

Personally, I welcome the information underlords.

[yesman065]

Was our trust as misplaced then as it is now? I guess today we simply have a greater supply of misinformation to wade through on our way to seek the truth.

[piercehawkeye45]

I see it as give an take.

Independent sources are very good to verify and counter mainstream sources yet we are just throwing more shit onto the pile.

We now know that the press has been selectively reporting the facts, sometimes at the governments behest and sometimes of there own volition.

Doesn't the mainstream press (and probably independant) get all their sources from one large newsfeed from the pentagon? I forget where I heard that.