Modern Slavery

Cloud · 10-10-2007, 01:18 PM

"an ancient scourge that has never really gone away."

I saw a programe on tv recently regarding the fight against modern slavery. I believe it was Ken Bales of Anti-Slavery International who was on it. It talked about the various forms of slavery that exist today, for example, for example bonded servitude, sexual slavery, and trafficking, and the fight against it.

Very interesting. It made the point that slaves today are actually treated worsethan ever before in history, because slaves are not as valuable as they were in the past.

One of the statements made was to the effect of "we are working to end in this generation a crime against humanity that has existed for the last 5,000 years."

So I wonder: Even if we do manage to eradicate slavery "in this generation"--does that mean it won't pop up again? Do these activists really believe that history doesn't repeat itself? Is slavery an inevitable part of the human experience?

Here's a good site on this: http://www.freetheslaves.net/NETCOMM...d=183&srcid=-2

Cicero · 10-10-2007, 02:09 PM

Here's one I've been pondering:
I think there is a problem here in NM with people taking advantage of illegal aliens. There is money promised for work and either they don't get paid, their wage gets cut by pay day, or they work for less than minimum wage. Not always the case...but it's frequent enough to be alarmed about.

Don't get me wrong....I don't like the fact that people have chosen to illegally enter this country and then demand rights....I don't want to turn this thread into a war either.......I'm liberal about a lot of things...but it bothers me because I've seen some protests and I don't think they have rights here to protest. (and fly the mexican flag not in solidarity btw)

But I do think that the use of illegals to do heavy work at low and sometimes wages that aren't delivered as promised is a form of modern slavery.

Cloud · 10-10-2007, 02:21 PM

You may very well have a point. However, low wages and poor working conditions aren't, in themselves, signs of slavery. It's only when you have no choice, and can't walk away from it.

What is slavery?

Common characteristics distinguish slavery from other human rights violations. A slave is:

* forced to work -- through mental or physical threat;

* owned or controlled by an 'employer', usually through mental or physical abuse or threatened abuse;

* dehumanised, treated as a commodity or bought and sold as 'property';

* physically constrained or has restrictions placed on his/her freedom of movement.

Cicero · 10-10-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

You may very well have a point. However, low wages and poor working conditions aren't, in themselves, signs of slavery. It's only when you have no choice, and can't walk away from it.

What is slavery?

Common characteristics distinguish slavery from other human rights violations. A slave is:

* forced to work -- through mental or physical threat;

* owned or controlled by an 'employer', usually through mental or physical abuse or threatened abuse;

* dehumanised, treated as a commodity or bought and sold as 'property';

* physically constrained or has restrictions placed on his/her freedom of movement.

Well if you work all day and have no idea if you are going to get paid or not because you can not litigate or persue that kind of action.......I don't know....I don't think they have much choice in whether they work or not either... I'm just going to go look up slavery........

Aliantha · 10-10-2007, 05:44 PM

There will always be people who like being overlords. Slavery will never be erradicated. It's an ongoing struggle that will last through the ages unless something miraculous happens to human nature.

theotherguy · 10-10-2007, 05:55 PM

From the beginning of man to the end.

piercehawkeye45 · 10-10-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

So I wonder: Even if we do manage to eradicate slavery "in this generation"--does that mean it won't pop up again? Do these activists really believe that history doesn't repeat itself? Is slavery an inevitable part of the human experience?

Slavery is the most efficient way to produce goods that require human services with the lowest cost so as long as we live in a system that favors low-cost production or we switch entirely to machines, it is an idea that can never become extinct, only withheld.

But even though we may never be able to eradicate slavery it can still be worth the energy if we can save people from it. It is like the "stop hunger" sites, no rational person thinks that we can stop starvation but if we can feed a certain amount of people, it is still worth it.

freshnesschronic · 10-10-2007, 06:34 PM

My professor told me about that one company in Georgia that picked up a bunch of illegals for a day to work at their vineyard. After the day's work was completed the big corporation called the cops saying "there's a bunch of illegals on my property (doing my work....) get them off and send them back!" Sure enough the popo hauled them off and shipped them back to the border and the company got the day's work done for $free.99, placing them higher than the law.
Disgusting.

Undertoad · 10-10-2007, 06:43 PM

We will need more info on "that one company in Georgia", if you please. Ask the prof, it's important.

freshnesschronic · 10-10-2007, 06:46 PM

Yessir

xoxoxoBruce · 10-10-2007, 08:09 PM

Slavery will continue... they're called husbands.

ZenGum · 10-10-2007, 10:57 PM

Can we link this to the "pony play" thread?

Company in Georgia: now that is innovative cost-cutting business practice at its finest ... &%$#ing white-collar criminals ...

Cicero · 10-11-2007, 11:47 AM

xo has it backwards......

Don't we still give brides away at weddings? (symbol of property exchange)

Snippy~
* dehumanised, treated as a commodity or bought and sold as 'property';

wolf · 10-11-2007, 01:01 PM

I think that we should bring back indentured servitude, as a means of clearing debt. Let's say you're a skilled worker of some kind ... programmer, lathe operator, whatever. You have $30K in unsecured debt that you're not having any success paying off. Company X buys your debt, and your services. You have a negotiated pay rate, with some established amount per check going towards your debt, worker keeps the remainder. You are contracted to work for the company until your debt is paid off. If you wish to continue to work for the company at the end of your indenture, the $$ that were going to the debt, now get paid to you instead.

I guess this would be for people with enough self-discipline to sustain employment, but not enough to get themselves out of debt.

Cicero · 10-11-2007, 01:09 PM

Hey!! I missed you wolf!!!
Maybe I'll have better aim next time...

lol!!
She always adds that extra crazy I need in my life.....

I got that from a bumper sticker, I admit, but it applies.

10-10-2007, 01:18 PM	#1
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	Modern Slavery "an ancient scourge that has never really gone away." I saw a programe on tv recently regarding the fight against modern slavery. I believe it was Ken Bales of Anti-Slavery International who was on it. It talked about the various forms of slavery that exist today, for example, for example bonded servitude, sexual slavery, and trafficking, and the fight against it. Very interesting. It made the point that slaves today are actually treated worsethan ever before in history, because slaves are not as valuable as they were in the past. One of the statements made was to the effect of "we are working to end in this generation a crime against humanity that has existed for the last 5,000 years." So I wonder: Even if we do manage to eradicate slavery "in this generation"--does that mean it won't pop up again? Do these activists really believe that history doesn't repeat itself? Is slavery an inevitable part of the human experience? Here's a good site on this: http://www.freetheslaves.net/NETCOMM...d=183&srcid=-2 __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

10-10-2007, 02:09 PM	#2
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	Here's one I've been pondering: I think there is a problem here in NM with people taking advantage of illegal aliens. There is money promised for work and either they don't get paid, their wage gets cut by pay day, or they work for less than minimum wage. Not always the case...but it's frequent enough to be alarmed about. Don't get me wrong....I don't like the fact that people have chosen to illegally enter this country and then demand rights....I don't want to turn this thread into a war either.......I'm liberal about a lot of things...but it bothers me because I've seen some protests and I don't think they have rights here to protest. (and fly the mexican flag not in solidarity btw) But I do think that the use of illegals to do heavy work at low and sometimes wages that aren't delivered as promised is a form of modern slavery. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

10-10-2007, 02:21 PM	#3
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	You may very well have a point. However, low wages and poor working conditions aren't, in themselves, signs of slavery. It's only when you have no choice, and can't walk away from it. What is slavery? Common characteristics distinguish slavery from other human rights violations. A slave is: * forced to work -- through mental or physical threat; * owned or controlled by an 'employer', usually through mental or physical abuse or threatened abuse; * dehumanised, treated as a commodity or bought and sold as 'property'; * physically constrained or has restrictions placed on his/her freedom of movement. __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

10-10-2007, 05:44 PM	#5
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	There will always be people who like being overlords. Slavery will never be erradicated. It's an ongoing struggle that will last through the ages unless something miraculous happens to human nature. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-11-2007, 11:47 AM	#13
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	xo has it backwards...... Don't we still give brides away at weddings? (symbol of property exchange) Snippy~ * dehumanised, treated as a commodity or bought and sold as 'property'; __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

10-10-2007, 05:55 PM	#6
theotherguy no not that other guy, the other one Join Date: May 2007 Location: TN Posts: 640	From the beginning of man to the end.

10-10-2007, 06:34 PM	#8
freshnesschronic Professor Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,555	My professor told me about that one company in Georgia that picked up a bunch of illegals for a day to work at their vineyard. After the day's work was completed the big corporation called the cops saying "there's a bunch of illegals on my property (doing my work....) get them off and send them back!" Sure enough the popo hauled them off and shipped them back to the border and the company got the day's work done for $free.99, placing them higher than the law. Disgusting.

10-10-2007, 06:43 PM	#9
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	We will need more info on "that one company in Georgia", if you please. Ask the prof, it's important.

10-10-2007, 06:46 PM	#10
freshnesschronic Professor Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,555	Yessir

10-10-2007, 08:09 PM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Slavery will continue... they're called husbands.

10-10-2007, 10:57 PM	#12
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Can we link this to the "pony play" thread? Company in Georgia: now that is innovative cost-cutting business practice at its finest ... &%$#ing white-collar criminals ...

10-11-2007, 01:01 PM	#14
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I think that we should bring back indentured servitude, as a means of clearing debt. Let's say you're a skilled worker of some kind ... programmer, lathe operator, whatever. You have $30K in unsecured debt that you're not having any success paying off. Company X buys your debt, and your services. You have a negotiated pay rate, with some established amount per check going towards your debt, worker keeps the remainder. You are contracted to work for the company until your debt is paid off. If you wish to continue to work for the company at the end of your indenture, the $$ that were going to the debt, now get paid to you instead. I guess this would be for people with enough self-discipline to sustain employment, but not enough to get themselves out of debt. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

10-11-2007, 01:09 PM	#15
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	Hey!! I missed you wolf!!! Maybe I'll have better aim next time... lol!! She always adds that extra crazy I need in my life..... I got that from a bumper sticker, I admit, but it applies. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

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