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Old 07-08-2002, 11:56 AM   #1
dave
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LAX Gunman's Wife Is Fucking Retard

From MSNBC:

Quote:
El-Awadly said she did not believe her 41-year-old husband was responsible for the shooting at Los Angeles International Airport, which killed an employee of El Al airline and a bystander, and was being blamed because he was Arab and Muslim.

“He is a victim of injustice,” she said three times. “In America, they hate Islam and Arabs after Sept. 11.”
Okay. I will be the first to admit that there is definitely some racism in America against Arabs. I will admit that, in some places, Muslims are looked down upon and treated in a racist manner.

But I am goddamn tired of hearing the relatives of murderers go on and on about how their loved ones are being framed because they're Muslim or they have brown skin. Come the fuck on!

Mohammed Atta's father is a good example. He sits in Egypt and spouts venom about how his son has been set up, how it's the Israelis, how his son would never do that... nevermind the martyrdom documents in his luggage! I'm all about being skeptical but when there's hard evidence to prove someone's involvement, why the fuck do you need to create all these stupid conspiracy theories? Yes, yes, I'm sure you're grieving because you loved your son... and maybe you're even in denial that he <b>could</b> have done this. But let's not ignore facts! And let's certainly not blame someone else. Holy Christ am I tired of seeing this shit.

Then I read about it in newspapers and on news sites - some suicide bomber's parents are in denial because their son would <b>never</b> do that. Nevermind the fucking video where he claims responsibility and talks of martyrdom! Yes, <b>of course</b> Israel doctored the video and made it look like he did it! How silly of us not to see that!

So here we are again and this fuckwad's wife is claiming that he's been set up. Let's just ignore the eyewitness testimony of some twenty or thirty others that saw this shitface shooting people. Yes, it was probably all an optical illusion enacted by those fucking kikes! He's being framed! Can't you see this?

I don't see this nearly as much with other religions or people from different areas of the Earth... it's always Middle Eastern Muslims. What the fuck gives?

I <b>want</b> to like them, and I <b>want</b> to sympathize, but it's really hard when they can't take any fucking responsibility for their actions as a whole. They come off sounding like a bunch of fucking whining nancies that condone murder.

[ Edit - Typo! ]

Last edited by dave; 07-08-2002 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 07-08-2002, 12:33 PM   #2
elSicomoro
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My understanding of the denial in situations like this is that some Muslims (believing that they are on God's right hand) cannot believe that a loved one would do something so heinous. In addition, b/c we are the great satan, some believe that we are making shit up to persecute them.

I guess the truth hurts. *shrugs*
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Old 07-08-2002, 12:46 PM   #3
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It goes back to the culture differences again, and this time I got tables.

Our culture:



Their culture:



Source: http://www.doceo.co.uk/background/shame_guilt.htm

The thing is, in the shame culture, what other people believe is more important than what actually happened. If other people believe you're innocent, then you ARE in effect innocent. So the instinct is to deny at all costs, because the truth is not really so important... even to you, internally.
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Old 07-08-2002, 02:47 PM   #4
MaggieL
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Quote:
Originally posted by Undertoad

The thing is, in the shame culture, what other people believe is more important than what actually happened.... the instinct is to deny at all costs, because the truth is not really so important...
Could have sworn I posted this link before the last time "shame culture" came up, but I can't find it searching so I'll post it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/20...ngewiesche.htm

<i><b>The Crash of EgyptAir 990</b>

Two years afterward the U.S. and Egyptian governments are still quarreling over the cause—a clash that grows out of cultural division, not factual uncertainty. A look at the flight data from a pilot's perspective, with the help of simulations of the accident, points to what the Egyptians already know: the crash was caused not by any mechanical failure but by a pilot's intentional act</i>
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Old 07-08-2002, 02:53 PM   #5
elSicomoro
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When Dave posted that MSNBC story, that (the Egypt Air crash) was the first thing that came to my mind.

Even with that, our relations with Egypt seem to have stayed solid. But with Mubarak's recent comments and now this, I hope they don't sour any further.
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Old 07-08-2002, 07:00 PM   #6
tw
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Re: LAX Gunman's Wife Is Fucking Retard

Quote:
Originally posted by dhamsaic
I <b>want</b> to like them, and I <b>want</b> to sympathize, but it's really hard when they can't take any fucking responsibility for their actions as a whole. They come off sounding like a bunch of fucking whining nancies that condone murder.
That is the first step to racism. Because she cannot think logically means that all Arabs are illogical? There is a big difference between SHE and THEY. Once you merge the two together, you are ready to incite riots in the street.

When Egyptian Air 990 crashed, my Arab friends could not believe it. First the co-pilot would have violated his own religious beliefs. Second, the translation we read in the paper was not accurate to what was on the voice recorder in Arabic. They had good reason to be suspicious of that crash.

We know that seven astronauts were murdered on the Challenger. Facts now make that obvious. But the majority still call it an accident, despite the facts. Since so many Americans are wrong, then are all Americans murders? Be very careful about condemning a whole people just because a few get public attention by making statements in direct contradiction to facts.

We don't even have a clue as to why this LA shooting occurred. Do not condemn a whole people because one's wife makes claims when almost no relevant facts are available. Let her deny and just assume she is a classic emotional thinker who is comfortable with opinions - facts be damned. That has nothing to do with how anyone regards any other Arabs, or Africans, or Eurasians, or Cambodians, or Serbs.... The use of 'THEY' rather than 'SHE' is how racism starts.
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Old 07-08-2002, 07:04 PM   #7
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I'd actually submit that racism starts with parents indoctrinating their children in the home, but that's just me.
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Old 07-08-2002, 10:58 PM   #8
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waitaminit

The Challenger? Murder? What did I miss here?

Brian
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Old 07-08-2002, 11:15 PM   #9
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Re: waitaminit

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianR
The Challenger? Murder? What did I miss here?
yeah, me too. i watched a documentary a while back about it and dont remember anything implying that.

also, i can almost understand this womans attitude (please note i said understand, not justify). i think i would have a very difficult time believing one of my loved ones was capable of something like this. she is probably in serious denial, and is lashing out at the perceived enemy. if i was told my wife shot a bunch of people up, i dont think i could believe it, at least at first, even when presented with hard facts proving she did.

~james
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Old 07-08-2002, 11:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
if i was told my wife shot a bunch of people
it would be proof they had the wrong person

Last edited by Nic Name; 07-09-2002 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 07-09-2002, 09:34 AM   #11
MaggieL
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Re: waitaminit

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianR
The Challenger? Murder? What did I miss here?
I thing the only thing you missed is what it really means when someone feels moved to tell us "we all know" something and blithely assert what the "facts" are.

Corporate terminal idiocy is still not grounds for a murder charge, (although sometimes it seems like it ought to be). I'm referring here to the management group-think committed by Morton Thiokol management under pressure from NASA Marshall management to aprove a launch in weather conditions that originally caused Thiokol engineers and engineering management to recommend <b>against</b> launch until the weather was warmer.

I suppose someone could make an argument that those events rise to the level of "reckless disregard".

The sources of information I use for my understanding of STS-51L are <i>Report of the Presidential Commission on the Space Shuttle Challenger Accident</i> (USGPO 1986), Richard Feynman's delightful book <i>What Do <b><u>You</u></b> Care What Other People Think?: Further Adventures of a Curious Character</i>, (Norton, 1988) (in particular, Appendix F, <i>Personal Observations of the Reliabilty of the Shuttle</i>) and Edward Tufte's <i>Visual and Statistical Thinking: Displays of Evidence for Making Decisions</i> in his masterpiece <i> Visual Explanations</i> (Graphic Press, 1997).

That said, I do regard baldly stating "we all know they were murdered" to be classic trollbait.

I think the central question we should be focusing on now, in light of dham's tagline, is *why* he is "fuckin Yoda". Couldn't Yoda get a date?

[<i>edited for typos and to insert the last-minute Yoda crack</i>]
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Last edited by MaggieL; 07-09-2002 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 07-09-2002, 09:48 AM   #12
dave
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I thought about making the same crack in the thread where it originated, but I decided I'd run with it and play along. Hence the new user title.
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Old 07-09-2002, 02:24 PM   #13
Nic Name
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Glad ya like it. Good on ya mate, as Jag would say.
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Old 07-09-2002, 02:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaggieL
That said, I do regard baldy stating "we all know they were murdered" to be classic trollbait.
OK Maggie, what have we learned about unwarranted personal attacks? Even if tw is folically challenged, calling him "baldy" isn't gonna solve anything.
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Old 07-09-2002, 08:39 PM   #15
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I think she meant "baldly".
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