Politician or Priest

[Spexxvet]

Politician or Priest. What's the difference, really?

In New Jersey.

Former Gov. James E. McGreevey has started the process to become a priest in his newly adopted Episcopal faith and has been accepted into a three-year seminary program starting this fall.

Link

[classicman]

"This is something he's been thinking about for years," said David France, who last year co-authored McGreevey's best-selling memoir, The Confession. "His spiritual life has always been central to who he is. From the time he was a kid, he thought about going into Catholic seminary a number of times. The idea of going into the Episcopal seminary has been in his mind for at least a couple of years."

McGreevey, 49, resigned in August 2004 after announcing he was gay and had an affair with a male staffer, who has denied it.

Nice, so???

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by classicman

Nice, so???

So what's the difference between being a politician or a priest?

They both live off of the proceeds from people for whom they don't provide a product or service. They are both positions where people allow themselves to be told what to do by them. They both have high incidences of abuse of power. A portion of both use their position to have sex with young boys. They are positions commonly held by hipocrits.

[SamIam]

Well, Spex, do you maybe, just maybe hate organized religion? I am going to take a great intellectural leap here and assume that you do. I have no desire to attempt to discuss religion with an individual whose mind is already made up. Go follow your bliss, but don't expect me to sign on for your journey.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by SamIam

Well, Spex, do you maybe, just maybe hate organized religion? I am going to take a great intellectural leap here and assume that you do. I have no desire to attempt to discuss religion with an individual whose mind is already made up. Go follow your bliss, but don't expect me to sign on for your journey.

The analogy isn't so much that all priests are corrupt like politicians, but that they both hold the same unquestioned position of power that allows them to be corrupt like politicians.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

So what's the difference between being a politician or a priest?

If you have no use for them, steer clear of them.

I think you are tarring the clergy with too broad a brush ... there are good, sincere folks (from all religious paths) out there. Those are the ones you don't hear about, incidentally.

All priests are not a Bernard Cardinal Law shielding a Father Geoghan.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

So what's the difference between being a politician or a priest?

They both live off of the proceeds from people for whom they don't provide a product or service. They are both positions where people allow themselves to be told what to do by them. They both have high incidences of abuse of power. A portion of both use their position to have sex with young boys. They are positions commonly held by hipocrits.

*slight wince* much as I'd like to bash the priestly profession, and much as i agree at a meta level that they offer nothing to those whose money they live off...at an individual level the majority of priests have a huge workload. Parishes are large. Lot of parishioners. Parishioners who will often turn to their priest for all kinds of help and in all kinds of emotional, physical or spiritual distress. Much of the job is essentially a kind of ad hoc social work. In poorer communities, if state assistance is not available, they are often at the frontline trying to make life a little better for people on the edge. From my perspective the solace they offer looks hollow and valueless; to those who seek such solace it may be a lifeline. Ad hoc social workers, some-time psychological councillors, debt advisors, family guidance councillors, community workers.

Most priests I know (and I know a few from my work), are hard working and not particularly well-paid. They are pretty much on call most of the time. They are heavily involved in community groups, often at the forefront of wider community activity. In fractured, working-class areas in particular, priests and vicars provide something which can come in many forms, but without which a community doesn't really exist.

A word on politicians: again, the majority of politicians don't have a national profile, are primarily involved in local matters, and are often a lot harder-working than people realise. I have lost my political verve, and have lost all faith in my own party. The system tends towards star-making, but star-making doesn't breed good politicians, it breeds stars. Meanwhile here on earth, ordinary elected representatives at various levels of the system, put in ridiculously long hours, for pay that would be laughed out of the private sector. The least useful work they do is what we hear about. The soundbites and the run for election, the populist policy announcements, the internal wrangles over party direction.

What makes it into the Britsh press, for example, is the long summer recess for members of parliament. Like work stops for them when parliament is not sitting. Actuallly, your average MP has their busiest time during the recess, because they can cram in all the local visits and campaigns they don't have time for when they're at the House of Commons til 1am on a Thursday morning. An MP's office is expected to help all sorts of people on all sorts of matters. From the single mum who feels she's been wrongly treated by her council authorities, to the asylum seeker trying not to be deported, to the local school who's fighting closure, and the employees of a major firm that's closing.

It's like any profession: some people work fucking hard.

[Shawnee123]

wtf?

I'm with you, Spexx. A big hiding place for hypocrites, morons, and deviants, the church is.

I'll follow you on your journey. Not that I get the comment, but it's fun to say.

[SamIam]

OK, I should explain. I am a member of the Methodist church and volunteer for some of its programs that help my community. The people of my church are like people anywhere. Some are kind; some are self- righteous; some are generous; some are miserly;etc.,etc.

I have no doubt that there do exist Methodist ministers who are incompetent pedophiles. I imagine that there do exist teachers who are incompetent pedophiles. I would hope that such sick individuals are discovered sooner rather than later.

But the OP villified the entire Christian faith and this is just wrong. It has become fashionable to trash Christians with rolled eyes and "oh THEM." There are many competent, caring Christians who are neither fundamentalists nor pedophiles. It is not my place to convert anybody. It does upset me to see an organization which in my town alone helps the homeless, establishes a safe house for battered women and serves 2,000 free meals a month dismissed in its entirety by the poor actions of a few.

[Pie]

What you choose believe or not believe is not my concern. Why your 'club' should be tax-exempt? That's a much harder question.

The services you provide are for your members only. Or are you bound by laws of public accommodation?

I thought not.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by Pie

What you choose believe or not believe is not my concern. Why your 'club' should be tax-exempt? That's a much harder question.

Churches, schools, and charities, along with amateur sports leagues, labor unions, farm associations and active members of the US armed forces do not pay taxes. Big Oil also often gets tax breaks. Write your congressman and good luck.

It has always been my understanding that the tax exemption for churches is part of the seperation between church and state. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The services you provide are for your members only. Or are you bound by laws of public accommodation?

I thought not.

Think some more. Battered women are given a place in our shelter and no one asks what if anything they believe in. People who show up at the soup kitchen do not have to be card carrying Methodists or anything else. We mainly ask that they do not be so drunk as to be disruptive.

It really is a shame that so many otherwise intelligent people are so mis-informed.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by SamIam

. . . and active members of the US armed forces do not pay taxes.

Partially correct. If you are serving in a theater of war, you're exempted on income earned in the time you were there. The rest of your military compensation you pay income taxes on, with some modifications on your state income tax picture per the Soldiers' and Sailors' Civil Relief Act of 1947.

Big Oil also often gets tax breaks.

This being a somewhat extreme but by no means unusual example of policy made in support of capitalism -- in roughly the same category as limited liability. Just cushier -- and lobbyists worked very hard to get it that way. The essential idea at the bottom is to facilitate prosperity, for with prosperity facilitated, things are better for simply everybody.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Especially Big Oil.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Especially Big Oil.

...but nowhere near as much as the big sugar oligopoly.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by SamIam

...and active members of the US armed forces do not pay taxes.

Bloody hell, we sure do pay taxes. Federal and state (depending on your state of record). Given that as you move around you can change your state of record and the first chance anyone has to get to a state that has no state taxes most change to that state. But federal taxes are paid on all income. And with the exception, as Congress grants the right, to have income which is earned in declared combat areas may have portions not subject to tax for defined periods of deployment.