U.K. Drinking Costs

[Griff]

As we head further in the direction of national health care we will probably see more public discussion of private issues because the private issue becomes public business. Anyway the U.K. is spending $4.4 billion a year on alcohol related treatment. 1 in 5 E.R. visits is alcohol related... I assume that Brits have a higher tolerance for boozing as they have better booze and a local pub culture. In the States, we have occasional bouts of Puritanism which lead us to bans, high age limits, high sin taxes, low blood alcohol limits etc... We have very serious alcohol issues here as well. Where are we in the US headed?

[classicman]

I have an issue with all the "sin tax" revenue being spent on all sorts of totally unrelated things. If you are going to tax prohibitively, then use that income for its intended purpose ONLY.

[SamIam]

I'm guessing that our highest alcohol costs is the carnage on our highways. My county has hired a private outfit to do all "alcohol treatment" for prople who get DUI's. This company is raking in the moolah. Offenders are forced to go to classes every week at $65.00 a pop. That's $270.00 a month. On top of that the outfit does all the evaluations to determine just how many of their classes you need. A person I know who got two DUI's is being forced to attend "classes" for four years. What a rip off!

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by SamIam

A person I know who got two DUI's is being forced to attend "classes" for four years. What a rip off!

Since that person was dumb enough to do it twice (that we know of) I don't have too much sympathy. I'd feel a lot worse reading about them wiping out a family on the road.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's the usual reply Rich, and it's bullshit. When they set the limit at .08 you can't even wear Cologne. Sure, there are dangerous drunks on the road and kill people. But many, if not most, of these people that are getting nailed and royally screwed, are not dangerous. They are no more impaired than somebody with a cold, and a fuck of a lot less than people playing with their ipod, or talking on the phone. Get nailed in PA and it'll cost you at least 8 or 10k, if you have to drive to work to keep your job, and all for a bullshit feel good law. It's revenue.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by richlevy

Since that person was dumb enough to do it twice (that we know of) I don't have too much sympathy. I'd feel a lot worse reading about them wiping out a family on the road.

I don't have any sympathy, either. I'm just ticked at the system we have here. This man still frequents the local bar just as before and manages to elude sobriety tests when they are given. The only hope I can see for other drivers is that maybe his liver will fail.

[Carruthers]

FWIW, the Royal College of Physicians’ position on alcohol can be read here: Link

And Alcohol now costs less than water - Timesonline.

[classicman]

You drink & drive - you assume that risk. I think thats part of the point. If they made the limit much higher, then there would be an outrage over all the accidents that happen when a driver's BAC is less than that.

There has to be a line somewhere and they must have some valid reason for putting it at .08

[glatt]

I think the .08 limit is fine, but I think the enforcement of the limit is what matters. If cops are setting up roadblocks and randomly targeting people, they will get people who might be at .09 and are still pretty much fine to drive. I would think that is unfair.

But if they are only testing people who are weaving all over the road and giving them other probable cause, then the .08 limit serves as a way of inflating how serious the incident is. They are that much further over the limit because the limit is so low.

I also think the low .08 limit is a real deterrent. I know it works for me.

[squirell nutkin]

I need the synopsis of this thread. Am I to understand that is is cheaper for me to stay here in the US to drink, and if so, is that factoring in the cost of hotel and airfare?

[Sundae]

Sainsbury's at the moment are selling 500ml of Biere Des Moulins lager for 49p.
That is HALF the price of 500ml Coca Cola. And even cheaper than generic Cola sold at that size.
It's not all that strong, but it's still 1.9 units per bottle, and really quite nice (we had some over Christmas, I drank it instead of the stronger stuff - I'd need litres of that to have an effect on me).

You just have to wonder how they do it.
I bought a litre of Diet Ginger Ale instead. Same price.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Sainsbury's at the moment are selling 500ml of Biere Des Moulins lager for 49p.
That is HALF the price of 500ml Coca Cola. And even cheaper than generic Cola sold at that size.
It's not all that strong, but it's still 1.9 units per bottle, and really quite nice (we had some over Christmas, I drank it instead of the stronger stuff - I'd need litres of that to have an effect on me).

You just have to wonder how they do it.
I bought a litre of Diet Ginger Ale instead. Same price.

Biere de moulins ....memories.... ugh.... student beer

[Aliantha]

Over here the legal limit is .05 for an open licence and .02 for a provisional (which is for the first 2 years after you get your licence). It used to be .08 but they lowered it many years ago in an attempt to stop the carnage on the roads.

I was the second on the scene of a single vehicle accident a couple of nights ago. The driver had been thrown from the vehicle and must have just about landed on his head. It was horrific. I administered first aid in that he was starting to choke on his own blood, so I turned his head and cleared the airway and supported him in that position till the ambulance arrived.

He had clearly been drinking and I suspect that was a major contributing factor to the crash.

The images are haunting me from that night. It was the worst thing I have ever witnessed on a physical level (aside from my Mum's struggle with cancer). I never did find out his name but I know he is still alive because I've been checking with the police. I don't know any more details than that because I'm not family.

Drink driving is a mistake no one should ever make. I don't care if they're just over the limit. The limit is there for a reason. It's no different to any other crime if you kill someone (including yourself) when you've been drinking.

Dead is dead.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Drink driving is a mistake no one should ever make. I don't care if they're just over the limit. The limit is there for a reason. It's no different to any other crime if you kill someone (including yourself) when you've been drinking.

The problem I see with the drinking and driving issue is that there is a clear cut between what is ideal and what is reality. Of course drinking and driving is bad and I personally don't know anyone that will disagree but in reality, the drinking and driving dilemma becomes more of calculating risk then a clear cut right and wrong.

We are supposed to think ahead but eventually many people will face the fork in the road when they are just drunk enough that they shouldn't be driving, are less then a mile away from their house, its -20 degrees outside, have no money for a cab, and no one else is on the road. Most people I know will decide that they will take the risk of drinking and driving even though they know they shouldn't. They make it home safety and then tell themselves that they will never put themselves in that position again. Naturally, they will put themselves in that situation again and will tell themselves that they have made it home before and they can do it again. That is where the snowball starts rolling and people start to feel confident in their drinking and driving abilities and start to believe that drunk driving accidents only happen to "other less responsible" people.

There are many flaws in the drinking and driving logic but in reality, many people are going to take the drinking and driving risk. No matter how much campaigning is done, no matter how low you make the drinking and driving limit, and no matter how big of consequences you make, drinking and driving is going to happen and most people are going to do it "safety" even though people know they shouldn't. The best solution IMO is creating alternative options and not trying to forcefully lower the number of drunk drivers with big consequences. Taxis are good and are widely used but they are expensive and many people prefer to drive. I don't know of a good solution besides expanding cab services and I doubt there really is one but I just don't believe continuing to lower the drinking limit and raising the consequences will do anything.


As a note, I do not disagree with the current laws in my area (.08 limit and heavy consequences for being caught) and quit drinking so I have never and will never drink and drive. Even though it is a reality that people will drink and drive, there must be consequences for doing it because of what can happen in the worst case scenario. It is not a preferable system but will have to do until a better is thought up.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The problem I see with the drinking and driving issue is that there is a clear cut between what is ideal and what is reality. Of course drinking and driving is bad and I personally don't know anyone that will disagree but in reality, the drinking and driving dilemma becomes more of calculating risk then a clear cut right and wrong.

We are supposed to think ahead but eventually many people will face the fork in the road when they are just drunk enough that they shouldn't be driving, are less then a mile away from their house, its -20 degrees outside, have no money for a cab, and no one else is on the road. Most people I know will decide that they will take the risk of drinking and driving even though they know they shouldn't. They make it home safety and then tell themselves that they will never put themselves in that position again. Naturally, they will put themselves in that situation again and will tell themselves that they have made it home before and they can do it again. That is where the snowball starts rolling and people start to feel confident in their drinking and driving abilities and start to believe that drunk driving accidents only happen to "other less responsible" people.

There are many flaws in the drinking and driving logic but in reality, many people are going to take the drinking and driving risk. No matter how much campaigning is done, no matter how low you make the drinking and driving limit, and no matter how big of consequences you make, drinking and driving is going to happen and most people are going to do it "safety" even though people know they shouldn't. The best solution IMO is creating alternative options and not trying to forcefully lower the number of drunk drivers with big consequences. Taxis are good and are widely used but they are expensive and many people prefer to drive. I don't know of a good solution besides expanding cab services and I doubt there really is one but I just don't believe continuing to lower the drinking limit and raising the consequences will do anything.


As a note, I do not disagree with the current laws in my area (.08 limit and heavy consequences for being caught) and quit drinking so I have never and will never drink and drive. Even though it is a reality that people will drink and drive, there must be consequences for doing it because of what can happen in the worst case scenario. It is not a preferable system but will have to do until a better is thought up.

Well, the bloke I attended to the other night wasn't far from home on a straight road and he still managed to get himself into trouble.

I don't know if attitudes are different in the US or not, but over here, the majority of the population doesn't drink then drive. Usually the designated driver wont have any at all, or if they do, maybe just one or two light beers. Clearly there are still those here who choose to take the risk of drinking and driving, but personally I have never done it and would never consider it. If I'm going to be driving I just don't drink. Most people I know have the same attitude. It's the 1% out there who decide to 'take the risk' that are the problem.