WWJK: Who would Jesus Kill - Military supplier adds bible references to rifle sights

richlevy · 01-20-2010, 08:38 PM

From here

Quote:

The Marine Corps is reconsidering its contract with a Michigan company that has engraved hundreds of thousands of rifle sights with Bible inscriptions, a spokeswoman said Tuesday.
"We are aware of the issue and are concerned with how this may be perceived," USMC spokeswoman Capt. Geraldine Carey told ABC News. "We will meet with the vendor to discuss future sight procurements."
Trijicon, based in Wixom, Mich., has been making the rifle scopes for the Marines since 2005 - and carving references to Bible passages next to the scope's serial number.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...#ixzz0dCpA1VHg

Ok, we already paid a Christian conservative billions of dollars to field the largest mercenary army in recent history. We already had a U.S. president declare a 'crusade' in the middle east. If Muslim extremists are supposed to be the trigger happy religious nutjobs, why are we referencing New Testament bible passages on rifle scopes? A blanket, first aid kit, or a meal ration is something to give comfort. It would be annoying but understandable if someone were slipping in bible tracts there. A rifle scope pretty much serves a single purpose, to target and kill an enemy. Since 2001 this enemy is predominantly Muslim.

So if we're trying to convince the world that this is not a Christian war or crusade on Islam, I think this might be sending the wrong message.

BTW, as of 2001 (see here), 32% of the military were atheist or non-Christian. Add to that the fact that some devout Christians also might have a problem mixing religion and killing and I think this was in poor taste. If a soldier really wants a Bible reference on his or her gun sight, they can scratch it there themselves.

Happy Monkey · 01-20-2010, 09:05 PM

I don't think that Trijicon is "trying to convince the world that this is not a Christian war or crusade on Islam". Just the opposite, I suspect.

monster · 01-20-2010, 09:37 PM

What are the bible passages referenced? Despite the fact that it is a Christian book, not all passages in the bible are meaningful solely to Christians. Don't Jews pretty much go with the "old testment"? And the Song of Solomon is almost porn. Even atheists can appreciate that. Seriously, it would never had occured to me that it was a bible reference if you hadn't told me. Yup I guess it shouldn't happen but I just don't care enough. There are plenty other places where Christianity is way too invasive. But my ambivalence does depend on which passages are referenced.

Bullitt · 01-20-2010, 09:52 PM

As a company they are allowed to print that on their product if they so choose, nothing wrong that at all. If the military is concerned about their image in this regard, then they should have weighed the potential negatives of buying this product against the benefits of it being world class quality, and the preferred choice of many soldiers before signing any contract with Trijicon to begin with.

This is a big hoopla over nothing. The print is very small so please tell me how many "hearts and minds" this has lost over the years, and the verses referenced aren't even violent in nature to begin with. From a USA Today article: "This situation is not unlike the situation with U.S. currency," said the spokesman, Air Force Maj. John Redfield. "Are we going to stop using money because the bills have 'In God We Trust' on them? As long as the sights meet the combat needs of troops, they'll continue to be used."

[edit] from a quick search, here are the passages:
John:8:12 “When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, ‘I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.’”

2COR4:6, a reference to part of the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ,"

MT5:16
"In the same way, let your light so shine before other, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven."

richlevy · 01-20-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt

As a company they are allowed to print that on their product if they so choose, nothing wrong that at all. If the military is concerned about their image in this regard, then they should have weighed the potential negatives of buying this product against the benefits of it being world class quality, and the preferred choice of many soldiers before signing any contract with Trijicon to begin with.

I think the point is informed consent. Did the military know about the policy?

Bullitt · 01-20-2010, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richlevy

I think the point is informed consent. Did the military know about the policy?

From the press covering this story I've read, the company does not make any attempt to hide the markings and openly acknowledges their existence/meaning when asked. Whether the verses were actually known about when whoever made the decision to go with those sights is unknown, right now it seems like typical ass-covering by the military saying they knew nothing. Or they really could not have known, but that is hard to believe given how long this company's products have been used by the military. Then again it could be a case of "well the guys really like these sights, that's an odd looking serial number on the side there.. whatever, they like it so we'll buy it."

The company is overtly Christian. From their website page About Us: "• Morality
We believe that America is great when its people are good. This goodness has been based on biblical standards throughout our history and we will strive to follow those morals." So whoever made the decision to contract with Trijicon knew at least that much for starters.

monster · 01-20-2010, 11:12 PM

Hm so it's passages about light. On an instrument designed to help paople see more clearly.... Seems like your regular hypocritical sales spiel to me....

wolf · 01-21-2010, 12:39 AM

Trijicon's night sights are awesome.

They aren't printing out the full verse ... just the reference, which frankly looks like a product ID code more than anything.

I was amused by the poll the NY Daily News was pretty clearly trying to skew by wording, but it seems to have backfired.

God's winning, 59 to 38, with only 3% undecided.

Quote:

Poll Results
Thank you for voting.
How do you feel about the fact that U.S. troops are using guns branded with Bible verse?
I am all for it. Our troops need all the support they can get -- God's especially. 59%
I am against it. Military rules prohibit proselytizing, and this may offend civilians in Muslim nations. 38%
Not sure. 3%

lookout123 · 01-21-2010, 12:57 AM

Go ahead and freak out if you want. Or you can look at the fact that Trijicon is absolutely top drawer shit. They're a private company who was contracted to produce specific items for the government. They did so. Who cares if there is a series of letters and numbers etched into the metal? Does it have a negative effect on the performance of the equipment? Do you really not have anything better to trip out about?

Urbane Guerrilla · 01-21-2010, 03:20 AM

Matthew 5:16 is, I believe, on a battery-powered illuminated-red-dot sight. No weirder, really, than quoting Luke 4:30 on a fourteenth century bascinet -- a fine piece of martial sassiness!

xoxoxoBruce · 01-21-2010, 03:22 AM

But heaven forbid we should offend the fuckers they're being pointed at.

Just issue them to US troops, no problem.

Urbane Guerrilla · 01-21-2010, 04:40 AM

If Trijicon really wants to take over the Wahhabi market, there are always cites of particularly martial Surahs, no?

DanaC · 01-21-2010, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

But heaven forbid we should offend the fuckers they're being pointed at.

Just issue them to US troops, no problem.

It's also possible they could offend moslem troops in the US army.

Griff · 01-21-2010, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

But heaven forbid we should offend the fuckers they're being pointed at.

Just issue them to US troops, no problem.

Are there any agnostic, atheist, Jewish, Moslem, or Buddhist fuckers in the US Army? Mil spec used to be pretty rigid. As to 14th century head gear, it was appropriate if worn by Christian soldiers in a Christian army on crusade, which apparently you guys believe the US Army is.

Pico and ME · 01-21-2010, 07:39 AM

It just sounds so wrong to put a bible verse on a killing machine. This is what really pisses me off about some Christians....everything is justified conveniently away.

01-20-2010, 09:05 PM	#2
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	I don't think that Trijicon is "trying to convince the world that this is not a Christian war or crusade on Islam". Just the opposite, I suspect. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

01-20-2010, 09:37 PM	#3
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	What are the bible passages referenced? Despite the fact that it is a Christian book, not all passages in the bible are meaningful solely to Christians. Don't Jews pretty much go with the "old testment"? And the Song of Solomon is almost porn. Even atheists can appreciate that. Seriously, it would never had occured to me that it was a bible reference if you hadn't told me. Yup I guess it shouldn't happen but I just don't care enough. There are plenty other places where Christianity is way too invasive. But my ambivalence does depend on which passages are referenced. __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

01-20-2010, 09:52 PM	#4
Bullitt This is a fully functional babe lair Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,324	As a company they are allowed to print that on their product if they so choose, nothing wrong that at all. If the military is concerned about their image in this regard, then they should have weighed the potential negatives of buying this product against the benefits of it being world class quality, and the preferred choice of many soldiers before signing any contract with Trijicon to begin with. This is a big hoopla over nothing. The print is very small so please tell me how many "hearts and minds" this has lost over the years, and the verses referenced aren't even violent in nature to begin with. From a USA Today article: "This situation is not unlike the situation with U.S. currency," said the spokesman, Air Force Maj. John Redfield. "Are we going to stop using money because the bills have 'In God We Trust' on them? As long as the sights meet the combat needs of troops, they'll continue to be used." [edit] from a quick search, here are the passages: John:8:12 “When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, ‘I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.’” 2COR4:6, a reference to part of the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ," MT5:16 "In the same way, let your light so shine before other, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven." __________________ Kiss my white Irish ass. Last edited by Bullitt; 01-20-2010 at 09:59 PM.

01-20-2010, 11:12 PM	#7
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	Hm so it's passages about light. On an instrument designed to help paople see more clearly.... Seems like your regular hypocritical sales spiel to me.... __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

01-21-2010, 12:57 AM	#9
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Go ahead and freak out if you want. Or you can look at the fact that Trijicon is absolutely top drawer shit. They're a private company who was contracted to produce specific items for the government. They did so. Who cares if there is a series of letters and numbers etched into the metal? Does it have a negative effect on the performance of the equipment? Do you really not have anything better to trip out about? __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

01-21-2010, 03:20 AM	#10
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Matthew 5:16 is, I believe, on a battery-powered illuminated-red-dot sight. No weirder, really, than quoting Luke 4:30 on a fourteenth century bascinet -- a fine piece of martial sassiness! __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

01-21-2010, 03:22 AM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	But heaven forbid we should offend the fuckers they're being pointed at. Just issue them to US troops, no problem. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-21-2010, 04:40 AM	#12
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	If Trijicon really wants to take over the Wahhabi market, there are always cites of particularly martial Surahs, no? __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

01-21-2010, 07:39 AM	#15
Pico and ME Are you knock-kneed? Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Middle Hoosierland Posts: 3,549	It just sounds so wrong to put a bible verse on a killing machine. This is what really pisses me off about some Christians....everything is justified conveniently away.

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