The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Current Events

Current Events Help understand the world by talking about things happening in it

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-18-2012, 02:48 PM   #1
Ibby
"She", not "he", guys
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: "the high up north"
Posts: 6,016
Rick Santorum: "mainline Protestants aren't real Christians"

Quote:
Originally Posted by "http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/18/1066109/-Wow-Santorum-Wow-?detail=hide"
Santorum actually said that mainline Protestants are no longer Christians:

Quote:
We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic but the Judeo-Christian ethic was a Protestant Judeo-Christian ethic, sure the Catholics had some influence, but this was a Protestant country and the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it.
Wow.
Stunning.

Basically, all Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans, Baptists, Congregationalists, Presbyterians, Dutch Reformists and Quakers are "gone from the world of Christianity." Santorum just excommunicated about 45 million Americans.

I really, really, really want this guy to be the nominee. We're talking greater than 1964 type numbers.
I'm sure that's gonna play real well. The dailykos article doesn't note that this is actually from a 2008 event, but if this gets some airtime...
__________________
not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh
Ibby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 02:53 PM   #2
Sundae
Missing you already
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 22,583
Ibs, has Mother Earth not given birth yet?
She's had an awful long pregnancy now.
And I might be in denial, but I swear it wasn't me who got her there....
Sundae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 03:04 PM   #3
Clodfobble
Sulky Cultivator in the Woods
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 15,647
Ibram, when was the last time you attended a church service? Because I'm here to tell you, the type of Christians who attend church every week--that is, the demographic that Santorum is courting here--do, in fact, believe that most people who self-identify as Christian are not walking the walk. He's not saying they're secret Muslims, he's just saying that the average "Christian's" behavior does not match the tenets they claim to espouse. Example: the 50% divorce rate among Christians isn't exactly Biblical.

He's far more liable to piss off his supporters by his suggestion that the Catholics only had some small influence compared to the Protestants.
__________________
My cooking blog
Clodfobble is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 03:16 PM   #4
Ibby
"She", not "he", guys
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: "the high up north"
Posts: 6,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble View Post
Ibram, when was the last time you attended a church service? Because I'm here to tell you, the type of Christians who attend church every week--that is, the demographic that Santorum is courting here--do, in fact, believe that most people who self-identify as Christian are not walking the walk. He's not saying they're secret Muslims, he's just saying that the average "Christian's" behavior does not match the tenets they claim to espouse. Example: the 50% divorce rate among Christians isn't exactly Biblical.

He's far more liable to piss off his supporters by his suggestion that the Catholics only had some small influence compared to the Protestants.
But I think santorum meant - and most people will understand that he meant - that they have become too liberal. Here's a fuller version of quote:

Quote:
We all know that this country was founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic but the Judeo-Christian ethic was a Protestant Judeo-Christian ethic, sure the Catholics had some influence, but this was a Protestant country and the Protestant ethic, mainstream, mainline Protestantism, and of course we look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it. [...]
Whether its sensuality of vanity of the famous in America, they are peacocks on display and they have taken their poor behavior and made it fashionable. The corruption of culture, the corruption of manners, the corruption of decency is now on display whether itís the NBA or whether itís a rock concert or whether itís on a movie set.
I think moderate, independent christian voters would be pretty turned off by this language. It's one thing to argue that your faith dictates the far-right policies he advocates; it's another to argue that moderate Christians aren't real Christians.
__________________
not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh
Ibby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 06:41 PM   #5
ZenGum
Doctor Wtf
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Badelaide, Baustralia
Posts: 12,861
It's the double counting that pisses me off.

Ask a Christian public figure how many people they represent and they'll give you the highest possible figure, based on how many people nominate any kind of Christianity in surveys or the census.

Count how many people go to church weekly and actually live their lives by religious rules ... and you can divide the first figure by around 10.
__________________
Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008.
Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.
ZenGum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 07:05 PM   #6
Clodfobble
Sulky Cultivator in the Woods
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 15,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibram
I think moderate, independent christian voters would be pretty turned off by this language.
Meh... moderate, independent Christian voters weren't going to be voting for Santorum anyway. He's said plenty of worse things to turn them off. The stuff above is basic sermon material, and not even the fire-and-brimstone kind.
__________________
My cooking blog
Clodfobble is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 09:06 PM   #7
Ibby
"She", not "he", guys
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: "the high up north"
Posts: 6,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble View Post
Meh... moderate, independent Christian voters weren't going to be voting for Santorum anyway. He's said plenty of worse things to turn them off. The stuff above is basic sermon material, and not even the fire-and-brimstone kind.
So Rick's plan if he gets the nomination is to win ONLY conservative votes? I mean, yes, clearly, that IS his plan, but you'd think he would PRETEND he has moderate appeal, and could win the independent vote.
__________________
not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh
Ibby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 09:46 PM   #8
Clodfobble
Sulky Cultivator in the Woods
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 15,647
The Republican M.O. for a long time has been to fire up the base and forget everyone else. It's not about what most people support, it's about who shows up on election day. It worked for Bush, anyway.
__________________
My cooking blog
Clodfobble is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 05:57 AM   #9
Sundae
Missing you already
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 22,583
Someone on Sky News (WARNING - MURDOCH OWNED*) suggested that the amount of people in this country (GB) who attend church weekly is 3 in 10. And that's higher than I would have thought, just from general experience and conversation.

"They" might fulminate in the press about being marginalised, but if they are treated as a minority it's because they are one. And a pretty tinchy one at that.

* yes usually Murdoch's press are pro-Christian - although the Great Man Himself certainly does not live by the Christian faith, I just mean to admit I have little faith in the figure because of its source.
Sundae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 10:03 AM   #10
Flint
_______
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 11,422
I've read the headline, the quote, and the quoted commentary several times, and I can't find any connection between them. This is a case of "you won't believe what this guy said!" but when you read the quote--he didn't. I'm pretty sure I have decent reading comprehension, so...

Am I just not going into this with the right attitude? Which color glasses do I need to put on for this to make sense?
__________________
****************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
Flint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 10:26 AM   #11
infinite monkey
holly jolly bullshit
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,894
You just need frames that don't impede your peripheral vision: you can't read one quote out of context of everything the person has vehemently espoused and wonder what all the hubbub is about. You have to read like, one or two more things.

He was funny on Face the Nation this morning, the master of "that's not what I said well that's what I said but this is what I meant" somehow woven into a fabric of I'LL NEVER BACK DOWN BWAAHAAAAHAAAA.

Bob was as incredulous as he gets when confronted with scary nutjob types.
infinite monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 12:26 PM   #12
Ibby
"She", not "he", guys
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: "the high up north"
Posts: 6,016
Quote:
look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it.
"gone from the world of Christianity as I see it" is not a way I would describe a wide swath of the christian electorate if I was running for office.
__________________
not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh
Ibby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 01:15 PM   #13
richlevy
King Of Wishful Thinking
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 6,627
Rick Santorum is the kind of guy, where if he were getting ready to burn a woman at the stake would quite seriously look up at her and say "I'm sorry if the ropes are too tight."
__________________
Obama 2012 - We did it again!
I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama
richlevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 03:17 PM   #14
SamIam
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Not here
Posts: 2,655
Quote:
Originally Posted by richlevy View Post
Rick Santorum is the kind of guy, where if he were getting ready to burn a woman at the stake would quite seriously look up at her and say "I'm sorry if the ropes are too tight."
I'm waiting for Santorum to start speaking in tongues - oh wait! He does that already.

The Republican party seems to deteriorate more with the passing of each year. Santorium is running on a platform of right wing fundamentalism and outright bigotry. He wants to take away the rights that the women of this country have fought so hard to secure. We are not to use birth control - certainly not have abortions, and if a woman becomes pregnant due to a rape, she must thank god for the blessing he has bestowed upon her. Since families today do not require two incomes, women are not to enter the professions or the workforce, but rather should stay home, barefoot and pregnant and scrubbing the floors.

Santorium is surely one of the most odious if not THE most odious candidate the Republicans have ever come up with.
SamIam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 03:41 PM   #15
BigV
Goon Squad Leader
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 20,409
I think what you're ignoring in this calculation Ibram is "compared to". Everybody does this, even you. You've commented on your displeasure at some of President Obama's actions...but you continue to support him because COMPARED TO the alternatives, he's the best option.

For those voters that Santorum is courting when he speaks like this, he's saying to them, COMPARED TO Mitt Romney, or whomever, COMPARED TO them, I'm *more* of what you like, in this case protestant-y christian-y aspirant to power.

Of course this has no appeal to moderate voters, christian or otherwise, but he's not talking to them, and when COMPARED TO the other aspirants, this kind of noise is what they want to hear.
__________________
Remember:

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. -- Marcus Aurelius, philosopher and writer (121-180)
BigV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:57 AM.

Help fill the mug... click to donate
I think the monkeys at the zoo should have to wear sunglasses so they can't hypnotize you.
- Deep Thoughts

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.