Planning vacations around sodomy

vsp · 03-27-2003, 10:50 PM

The Supreme Court is currently hearing <a href="http://slate.msn.com/id/2080746/">Lawrence vs. Texas</a>, an entertaining case concerning everyone's favorite crime against nature.

Two gay men are in a private apartment in Texas, minding their own business. An angry neighbor calls in a fake police report, claiming that there's a man with a gun "going crazy" in the apartment in question (a report he was later convicted over). The cops enter the apartment, discover the pair weaponless but locked & loaded in another manner entirely... _and arrest the men_ for deviant sexual behavior.

Since the law was specifically written in Texas to clamp down on homosexual sodomy, giving heteros a free pass, the pair challenged the law on discrimination grounds. The story linked above has all sorts of entertaining quotes from the situation and testimony, and you can just FEEL Judge Scalia squirming in his chair at the very thought of such illicit behavior.

Now, I'm a happily married man, so the local altar boys and sheep have nothing to worry about from me. Still, I thought it might be prudent to check out the laws around the country, so that I can avoid the wrath of the local constabulatories. Thirteen states still have <a href="http://www.sodomy.org/laws/">sodomy laws</a> on the books -- at least NINE of them applying to both same-sex and opposite-sex couples, often to MARRIED couples. Some highlights:

* If my wife and I decide to drive down I-95 this summer and make some stops along the way, we're in trouble. Virginia, North Carolina, and South Carolina all consider many consensual acts (same- OR opposite-sex) felonies, while Florida considers them misdemeanors. Note to self: no going south-of-the-border while visiting "South Of The Border."

* Louisiana is right out; five years, with OR without hard labor. So much for Mardi Gras. But hey -- according to a 1927 case, sex with a dead body IS legal in Louisiana, so if my wife or myself gets hit by lightning or a bus, the survivor's even LUCKIER! Er... um... I'll move on.

* Mississippi frowns upon hummers (up to ten years), but returning the favor is apparently legal. Sex toys can get us up to a $5000 fine and six months in jail, however. It's a muscle relaxer, judge... really!

How ironic is it that if you commit sodomy, some states are liable to throw you in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison?

elSicomoro · 03-27-2003, 11:00 PM

I read about this yesterday. It's an interesting quagmire, especially if you're a conservative. On one hand, if you favor Lawrence, you could be paving the way for laws protecting GLBTs from discrimination. On the other hand, consenting adults should be protected inside their home.

Of course, I support both issues there, but that's just me.

Whit · 03-28-2003, 09:28 AM

     Hmm, this thread caused me to look up 'Sodomy' in the dictionary for the very first time... I'm not sure what I think about that...
     On the other hand while my state has sodomy laws in effect, I'm not effected. It seems it's only actually sodomy with if it's same sex or an animal. Huh, I didn't know oral gratification with an animal was sodomy... Of course I'd never given the subject any thought whatsoever, so that's no surprise. Still, good to know that my state gives me free reign to do anything I'd actually want to do. Forget I said that, there's probably some county or city laws that make it illegal look at a person with sexual desire.

juju · 03-28-2003, 06:21 PM

Don't feel bad, I had to look up hummer. Thank god for everything2.com! Sounds interesting, but I'd feel like a big ol' dork asking for it. "Umm.., while you're down there, could you.. ahmm.. hum?"

Undertoad · 03-28-2003, 09:24 PM

Hey, maybe that's what that dude wanted! That he couldn't ask for! You know, from the other week.

SteveDallas · 04-03-2003, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whit
     Hmm, this thread caused me to look up 'Sodomy' in the dictionary for the very first time... I'm not sure what I think about that...

The important thing is not the dictionary definition of "sodomy", but the legal definition. As far as I can tell, there have been lots of different legal definitions in lots of different places over time. (I might characterize it as "any stuff that's so disgusting no normal person would consider doing it.")

Whit · 04-03-2003, 11:49 AM

     I always had associated Sodomy with anal sex, usually either homosexual or a rape situation. I had no idea oral was included, heck I never knew that one chic going down on another was sodomy. Never made the connection. I also had thought of bestiality was a thing onto itself, not part of sodomy. Go figure.
     I was glad to hear that my state's sodomy laws are restricted to things I wouldn't do anyway. That doesn't mean that I don't object to telling two consenting adults what they are allowed to do in the privacy of their own home. I don't really like my Gov dictating morality outright. They enjoy it,nobody's involved that doesn't want to be and it's their business. (remeber legal age restrictions apply to this as well) Why make it illegal?
     As far as you characterization goes, is getting a blow job from your girlfriend/wife to disgusting to consider? What about returning the favor? These are both sodomy though. By many legal as well as the technical definitions.
     My point is that until I looked it up I agreed with your characterization. I'd also like to think that the legal are at least somewhat based on the technical definitions.
     By the by, by legal definition Clinton did not have sexual relations with Monica, just sodomized her. Heh. Anyway we see how well sticking to the legal definitions worked.

Undertoad · 04-03-2003, 11:56 AM

Hey, maybe whatever that dude jmf wanted from his wife was actually illegal! We should have pointed him to a guide to state laws.

Whit · 04-03-2003, 01:07 PM

     Heh, or if it wasn't illegal he could have used that to, "See honey? It's not likes it's illegal in this state!" I mean who hasn't used that line once or twice?

SteveDallas · 04-03-2003, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whit
As far as you characterization goes, is getting a blow job from your girlfriend/wife to disgusting to consider? What about returning the favor?

Well, no, but we're not talking about me, we're talking about legislators!

Whit · 04-03-2003, 01:24 PM

     Dude, I started laughing my ass off about that idea 'till I realized that alot of those guys really need a blowjob. Deeply disturbing mental image, Newt Gingrich's 'O' face. Sorry, that was wrong.

vsp · 04-03-2003, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
Don't feel bad, I had to look up hummer. Thank god for everything2.com! Sounds interesting, but I'd feel like a big ol' dork asking for it. "Umm.., while you're down there, could you.. ahmm.. hum?"

Heh -- too much Opie & Anthony for me. Not that they were the first to adopt it, but "hummer" was their on-air slang for the act of fellatio, with or without actual humming. 'Twas one of their many circumventions of FCC regulations.

headsplice · 04-03-2003, 03:38 PM

Is anyone else particularly well versed w/ the sex laws of their locality? I'm not too sure about MN, but, in TN, where I went to jr. high and high school, it was fairly common knowledge that "The Law" proscribed _everything_ except the missionary position w/ lights out, shades drawn, and doors locked. Does anyone else think that we should just start over?

04-04-2003, 05:26 AM

Yes.

Cam · 04-04-2003, 07:51 AM

I'm taking a wild guess here but I'd say that there is about a zero percent chance any of these laws would ever be the cause of any law abiding citizens arrest, let alone would these laws not stand up in court. There are plenty of outrageous laws in the books, they all had a reason at one time or another, and the lawmakers never got around to removing them.

[edit] crap this has already been said, that's what I get posting on 3 hours of sleep.

[/edit]

03-27-2003, 10:50 PM	#1
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	Planning vacations around sodomy The Supreme Court is currently hearing <a href="http://slate.msn.com/id/2080746/">Lawrence vs. Texas</a>, an entertaining case concerning everyone's favorite crime against nature. Two gay men are in a private apartment in Texas, minding their own business. An angry neighbor calls in a fake police report, claiming that there's a man with a gun "going crazy" in the apartment in question (a report he was later convicted over). The cops enter the apartment, discover the pair weaponless but locked & loaded in another manner entirely... _and arrest the men_ for deviant sexual behavior. Since the law was specifically written in Texas to clamp down on homosexual sodomy, giving heteros a free pass, the pair challenged the law on discrimination grounds. The story linked above has all sorts of entertaining quotes from the situation and testimony, and you can just FEEL Judge Scalia squirming in his chair at the very thought of such illicit behavior. Now, I'm a happily married man, so the local altar boys and sheep have nothing to worry about from me. Still, I thought it might be prudent to check out the laws around the country, so that I can avoid the wrath of the local constabulatories. Thirteen states still have <a href="http://www.sodomy.org/laws/">sodomy laws</a> on the books -- at least NINE of them applying to both same-sex and opposite-sex couples, often to MARRIED couples. Some highlights: * If my wife and I decide to drive down I-95 this summer and make some stops along the way, we're in trouble. Virginia, North Carolina, and South Carolina all consider many consensual acts (same- OR opposite-sex) felonies, while Florida considers them misdemeanors. Note to self: no going south-of-the-border while visiting "South Of The Border." * Louisiana is right out; five years, with OR without hard labor. So much for Mardi Gras. But hey -- according to a 1927 case, sex with a dead body IS legal in Louisiana, so if my wife or myself gets hit by lightning or a bus, the survivor's even LUCKIER! Er... um... I'll move on. * Mississippi frowns upon hummers (up to ten years), but returning the favor is apparently legal. Sex toys can get us up to a $5000 fine and six months in jail, however. It's a muscle relaxer, judge... really! How ironic is it that if you commit sodomy, some states are liable to throw you in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison?

03-28-2003, 09:28 AM	#3
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	Hmm, this thread caused me to look up 'Sodomy' in the dictionary for the very first time... I'm not sure what I think about that...      On the other hand while my state has sodomy laws in effect, I'm not effected. It seems it's only actually sodomy with if it's same sex or an animal. Huh, I didn't know oral gratification with an animal was sodomy... Of course I'd never given the subject any thought whatsoever, so that's no surprise. Still, good to know that my state gives me free reign to do anything I'd actually want to do. Forget I said that, there's probably some county or city laws that make it illegal look at a person with sexual desire. __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

04-03-2003, 11:49 AM	#7
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	I always had associated Sodomy with anal sex, usually either homosexual or a rape situation. I had no idea oral was included, heck I never knew that one chic going down on another was sodomy. Never made the connection. I also had thought of bestiality was a thing onto itself, not part of sodomy. Go figure.      I was glad to hear that my state's sodomy laws are restricted to things I wouldn't do anyway. That doesn't mean that I don't object to telling two consenting adults what they are allowed to do in the privacy of their own home. I don't really like my Gov dictating morality outright. They enjoy it,nobody's involved that doesn't want to be and it's their business. (remeber legal age restrictions apply to this as well) Why make it illegal?      As far as you characterization goes, is getting a blow job from your girlfriend/wife to disgusting to consider? What about returning the favor? These are both sodomy though. By many legal as well as the technical definitions.      My point is that until I looked it up I agreed with your characterization. I'd also like to think that the legal are at least somewhat based on the technical definitions.      By the by, by legal definition Clinton did not have sexual relations with Monica, just sodomized her. Heh. Anyway we see how well sticking to the legal definitions worked. __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

04-03-2003, 01:07 PM	#9
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	Heh, or if it wasn't illegal he could have used that to, "See honey? It's not likes it's illegal in this state!" I mean who hasn't used that line once or twice? __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

04-03-2003, 01:24 PM	#11
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	Dude, I started laughing my ass off about that idea 'till I realized that alot of those guys really need a blowjob. Deeply disturbing mental image, Newt Gingrich's 'O' face. Sorry, that was wrong. __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

03-27-2003, 11:00 PM	#2
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I read about this yesterday. It's an interesting quagmire, especially if you're a conservative. On one hand, if you favor Lawrence, you could be paving the way for laws protecting GLBTs from discrimination. On the other hand, consenting adults should be protected inside their home. Of course, I support both issues there, but that's just me.

03-28-2003, 06:21 PM	#4
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Don't feel bad, I had to look up hummer. Thank god for everything2.com! Sounds interesting, but I'd feel like a big ol' dork asking for it. "Umm.., while you're down there, could you.. ahmm.. hum?"

03-28-2003, 09:24 PM	#5
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Hey, maybe that's what that dude wanted! That he couldn't ask for! You know, from the other week.

04-03-2003, 11:56 AM	#8
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Hey, maybe whatever that dude jmf wanted from his wife was actually illegal! We should have pointed him to a guide to state laws.

04-03-2003, 03:38 PM	#13
headsplice Relaxed Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 676	Is anyone else particularly well versed w/ the sex laws of their locality? I'm not too sure about MN, but, in TN, where I went to jr. high and high school, it was fairly common knowledge that "The Law" proscribed _everything_ except the missionary position w/ lights out, shades drawn, and doors locked. Does anyone else think that we should just start over? __________________ Don't Panic

04-04-2003, 07:51 AM	#15
Cam dripping with ignorance Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Grand Forks ND Posts: 642	I'm taking a wild guess here but I'd say that there is about a zero percent chance any of these laws would ever be the cause of any law abiding citizens arrest, let alone would these laws not stand up in court. There are plenty of outrageous laws in the books, they all had a reason at one time or another, and the lawmakers never got around to removing them. [edit] crap this has already been said, that's what I get posting on 3 hours of sleep. [/edit] __________________ After the seventh beer I generally try and stay away from the keyboard, I apologize for what happens when I fail. Last edited by Cam; 04-04-2003 at 09:25 AM.

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