Critique my potential new toy...

[vsp]

I'm in the midst of justifying the cost of a new system to myself. My current alleged computer is a Packard Bell (pause for laughter) Pentium 133, which is a 133 in name only because the rest of the architecture is brain-damaged. 40MB RAM, a 4MB video card, an 8MB HD, a SCSI card with an external CDR (two, actually) and a scanner on the way, and it still runs like a constipated wombat and can't run Galaga at full speed without frameskipping.

It's still suitable for the Internet and a fair number of related applications, but it's been six years with this beast and ME WANT NEW TOY and they're a lot more affordable now. So there.

Things I have in mind:

* Everything I've read so far in doing a moderate amount of homework suggests that the Athlons are the way to go right now, in that they're more bang for the buck than the P3s and (especially) P4s.

* If you're going to buy a new computer, buy as close to state-of-the-art as is affordable. My rule of thumb is this: Buy a cutting-edge computer and in one year, you're no longer cutting-edge. In two years, you're entry-level. In three years, you're below minimum specifications for new Windows apps. Buying less than cutting-edge simply reduces your viability time.

* With processor speeds spiraling upwards at a rapid pace, a great video card is more valuable than a great CPU speed, because a substandard video card can become a bottleneck very quickly.

* It's difficult to have too much RAM or too much drive space.

* I am not a big 3D gamer (I'm more into MAME, Visual Pinball and such than Quake/Unreal/etc.), but I dabble with 3D games enough that I don't want to skimp on those capabilities.

* My existing Office 97 disc will be just fine; I don't need the latest and greatest sets of MS bloatware, or to pay an extra $150 for a system because it's got MS Works and six months of AOL or MSN packaged with it.

* I am not ruling out a dual-boot with Linux or FreeBSD at some point, but don't have the cojones to set it up right now.

* I'm on the brink of violating one of my major rules (always buy Dell or Gateway), largely because Dell does not believe in Athlons and Gateway has limited customization options. A local company (Alpha Computers in Malvern) has a good rep from some people I've talked to who've bought theirs there, and they can customize a system for me any way I'd want it.

With all of that floating around in my head, here's what I'm considering:

* ASUS ATV133 motherboard, ATA100, 4xAGP, 4USB Jumperfree, AT-Raid0, 266MHz FSB, six slots
* Athlon 1300 processor
* 256MB PC133 SDRAM
* 30GB 7200rpm ATA100 HDD
* ASUS GeForce2 32MB GTS video card
* 12x8x32 CDRW drive (LG)
* SoundBlaster Live (debating other options here)
* USR 56K modem
* Win98 2nd Edition (I get the CD, not a dopey restore disk option that would wipe the HD, and I keep legacy DOS app compatibility)
* Subwoofer speaker system
* ATX tower, 4 bays (3 open), two fans
* Floppy, mouse, keyboard
* 1 year parts + labor warranty, free tech support

at around $1040 before adding a new monitor, which is also something I'm debating (17" or 19", get one there or shop around...)

This should blow the doors off of whatever I throw at it for the foreseeable future, doesn't have all sorts of OEM bloatware preinstalled, has room for a DVD-ROM if I choose to add one later, and (with the possible exception of the SB Live, which is notoriously buggy with certain apps) doesn't have any big gaping holes leaping out at me.

Discuss. Does the above sound reasonable? Any changes you'd make? How should I have them configure this if I want the option of dual-booting Linux later on?

jeff. always up for new toys

[alphageek31337]

Good call in sticking with 98e.2. Don't *ever* get Me, I know, I have it, it's crap. Also, about your ram, 256 is good for now, but make sure you have enough expansion slots to go to the moon. You can never have enough ram. Same thing for disc space...I recommend allocating half of it if you're going to ahve a dual boot machine...13gigs for a main linux partition, and a 2 gig swap partition. Also, 56k will make you cry, multiple times, so make sure you have at least the slot for a NIC, so you can get cable or DSL when you finally give up on dial-up. God-willing, your 56k modem is internal, and is a combination modem/NIC, they usually work well. BUS speeds are pretty high now also, but you may want to wait until the next major breakthrough, and get the highest speed BUS available, because that truly is your major bottleneck. You can process at 1300mhz, but if you can only BUS your data at 133mhz, you're still moving damn slowly. Shop around for the monitor, but get the biggest one you can find. Trust me, it's worth it. I'm sitting in front of a 19" viewabale here, and have a 16" viewable upstairs. The difference is more than you'd think. Also stay away from the flatscreens if space permits it. They look neat, but the picture quality is bad, and they're more expensive. Somehow, to me, paying more for less is a bad thing.

That's all I got

Steve

[Undertoad]

You can never get enough RAM with a Win98 system, but Win95/98/ME systems won't see anything beyond 512MB IIRC.

It's a good call to get the GTS video card. Tom's HW benchmarks say the GTS is nearly as fast as the Ultra, and the GeForce 3 card is still way expensive. Right now that is a monster system that will get the job done. Even if you only run one game with that 3D setup, you'll appreciate it.

And to be honest, you know, a lot of those 1st person 3D shooters are actually old-fashioned puzzle games anyway.

[jaguar]

I've recently built quite a few athlon systems (including my own) so im' in a good position to coment on this =)


* ASUS ATV133 - I'd go A7V, latest reincarnation of it (A7M i think?), best athlon board by far

* Athlon 1300 processor - All good

* 256MB PC133 SDRAM - I'd got 512Mb

* 30GB 7200rpm ATA100 HDD - All good

* ASUS GeForce2 32MB GTS video card - Go the the GForce2 MX and use the saved cash for extra RAM

* 12x8x32 CDRW drive (LG) - same as mine! =)

* SoundBlaster Live (debating other options here) - Live Value is a sweet card, well priced too.

* Win98 2nd Edition (I get the CD, not a dopey restore disk option that would wipe the HD, and I keep legacy DOS app compatibility)

* ATX tower, 4 bays (3 open), two fans - First off al, you want a BLOODY GOOD heatsink, if your looking for overclocking i'd definately go for one of the bloody great swifttech coolers, best around by FAR. If not an Alpha PAP or GlobalWIN would be the best. Careful putting thsoe htings on, its hte easier way to fuck an athlon chip. Other poits are its best to runit iwht the case open and have at least one fan NEAR the cpu, either on the backpane if there is a space or a card far in the first slot (usually there is a free one). Other thing is that alot of athlon boards (ASUS for example) are BIG so you often lose the use of the lower 5inch bays in smaller cases, keep this in mind.

* 1 year parts + labor warranty, free tech support - Save the cash and build it yourself! It takes very little experience, and is simply a matter of plugging everything together and pushing power, milions of manuals online and in mags on how to do it! It really is not hard at all, and if you have *any* problems particualry with Athlon systems i'm more than willing to help.

First comp i built from scratch was an Athlon so i know what its like, biggest thing to remember is nto to use electric screwdrivers and to earth yourself.

Good luck!

2 things i just noticed....First of all keep that old 8G HD and shove it in the new one and use it to play with linux.

Other thing is that I'm sitting in front of a Sony E220 flat CRT at the moment and it is by far the best moniter i've come across, there are some shoddy flats out there but the Sony ones i know are fucking sweet!

[elSicomoro]

Jag, you are scaring the hell out of me. I would expect this computer talk out of people who are (probably) a bit older than me. But you're only 16...so much potential ahead...so much danger...

Melbourne, batten down your hatches.

[mbpark]

I bought my sister the Asus A7V133 motherboard.

It's got ATA100, RAID, 3 DIMM sockets, and can support the latest 266Mhz FSB (133 Mhz DDR) Athlon chips.

The motherboard smokes. Windows 2000 Professional loves it. It is the basis for a very fast Athlon 900 system that I built Faith that has 384 MB RAM, a 30GB 7200RPM ATA100 HD, 12x DVD-ROM, floppy (for that legacy stuff), GeForce2 MX (okay, I skimped on that because the card is more than good enough for 3D and 2D for her needs), SB Live! Value Edition, and Netgear FA311TX Fast Ethernet card (which I recommend highly, and works with the latest Linux distros).

She gets an Athlon 1.4Ghz CPU and 1.5GB SDRAM later this year so she can use her clinical programs (graduate student in audiology and speech and hearing disorders), which eat RAM worse than anything Microsoft could ever make because they have to process much more data than you think.

I like your choice of CPU and sound card. I'd get that ASUS Motherboard (A7V133) instead, and stick in a DVD-ROM drive. RAM is so cheap that you can easily pick up 512MB for under $50 if you know where to look on Pricewatch or eBay.

Mitch
(welcome back, vsp!)

[vsp]

The system I described does come with an ASUS A7V133, not an ATV133. Ts and 7s on a spec sheet look fairly similar at one in the morning. (I'm not even sure if there is such a thing as an ASUS ATV133.)

Actually, I just checked the web site and I'm not sure if this comes with the A7V133, A7A266 or A7M266. It's the A7V133 at a minimum (that's what was in the previous ad), and with the prices being similar it may pay to upgrade to the A7M266 even if I don't splurge for DDR memory right off the bat.

I looked on PriceWatch, and ye gods, you're right -- PC133 memory is going for a song these days. Hell, it'd probably cost me more than that to get two 32MB Fast Page SIMMs for my current machine to bring it to its maximum capacity. (Gotta love Packard Bell architecture -- four SIMM slots, but two are permanently-welded-in 4MB SIMMs and the other two max out at 32MB apiece.)

The concept of building it myself is tempting, but I don't trust myself that much with hardware. I'll probably be sweating enough just adding my AHA2940U SCSI card to it, let alone tinkering with the whole system at once. I feel better buying it assembled and getting a year's worth of oh-hell-there's-black-smoke-pouring-out-the-back support; I'm saving at least what I'm spending on that by not paying for shipping and MS software (beyond the OS).

Same deal with overclocking. As fast as this sucker's going to be, what the heck am I going to be running where I'll need extra speed any time soon?

My problem with the SBLive is that it's notorious for being buggy when used with many common Win32 games (such as MAME32 and Visual Pinball) -- there's an incompatibility with some VIA Southbridge chipsets that causes crackling, scratchy sound in games and occasional BSoDs when burning CDs. It's some sort of latency issue; apparently VIA grudgingly admitted it's a flaw in their chipset, but the problem's been reported with lots of SBLive setups. My dad bought a P3-800 last year with WinME and an SBLive and the crackling drove me nuts. Unless I know for sure that the A7V133 will play nice with the SBLive, I'm hesistant to order the combination.

DVDs don't impress me... yet. Are there any region-free DVD-ROMs out there anyone knows of? Without that capability, I'm just not interested at least as far as movies go, and (right now, anyway) what else would I use it for?

jeff. DVD rack systems are pretty cheap and I can watch it on my living-room TV if I feel the urge.

[jaguar]

*laughz, sycamore, most of my school knows this stuff off the top of our heads...

Hmm i have heard of some porblems with SBlives and via chipsets, but thats exactly what i have on the origional A7V (got this setup in January in Singapore) and i've had no problems with ANYTHING except...when i add an extra card the damn thing grabs IRQ12,which is the mouse IRQ and windows goes apeshit and refuses to load but i fixed that by locking the IRQ in BOIS. VIA has also released updates that fixed alot of bugs with compatability with the SBLive, particualry in PIC 4 or 5. I play too many games and I've never had a problem (Red Alert 2, Unreal Tounamant, Halflife, Quake3, Discworld, Startrek Away team, Commandos, Project IGI, Total Annihilation, Starcraft for starters....)

IMHO DDR ram for now is a complete waste of money, from what i've seen the peformance is just not worth the price with SD so damn cheap, (friend just got a 256Mb stick for AU$85!!!. US$40)
you may as well jsut get 3 of those of if your feeling excessive/want upgrading space a 512 stick would do you fine.

Other things to note is that make sure you get the latest VIA 4 in 1 driver/BIOS the difference is amazing. With Athlon chips there are 2 variations at any given speed, for instance the 1.3Ghz and the 1.33Ghz, the difference is that the second one supports the DDR/266 FSB, so looking to the future make sure you get one.

As for Reigion-Free DVDs the MPAA have put us all up shit creek by releasing new DVDs that check (i can't remmber how) that the player has a reigon, so avoid them, if you want go round the net looking for Firmware updates that allow you to change the reigion of the player as many times as you want, far better system (have to get one myself some time).

[mbpark]

Well, I've had no problems with crackling @ all, I've patched the BIOS (as I always do when getting a new system). However, I've not noticed IRQ problems or such either.

CD burning isn't a problem either with the VIA. Faith got a HP USB CD-RW drive, and it works just fine with no BSoD. Roxio CD Creator may be an issue, but that is it.

Windows 2000 doesn't have that IRQ problem either, from what I saw. The older ASUS motherboard I had for the Celeron had some issues, and that was a 440BX. It seems to treat IRQ conflicts a lot better than 9x ever did.

However, a lot of software will be coming on DVD-ROM, and SuSE Linux already does! FreeBSD will be coming soon as well. 4.7GB on a disc is a lot better.

They also cost as much as a CD-ROM drive. Therefore, I think they are a better deal.

[jaguar]

Hmm, seems i spoke too soon, i'm pretty sure this is only iwht the early revisinos of the A7V coz none of hte other machines i've built have had this problem but i just re-instlaled iwndows and now when i install the SB live stuff it fucks the mouse *not happy* i'm debugging my way though this atm but yea.....