I think Bush is a crooked elitist f*ck. What do you think?

[ScottSolomon]

Bush does not want the 9-11 report to come out

I wonder why?

I guess it would look really bad if say, Ashcroft was warned not to fly publicly shortly before 9-11 or that the U.S. planned for the scenario that Condi Rice said "no one could have anticipated"or that warnings and failures were ignored by the highest officials in the land, or that many , many other nations warned us shortly before 9-11 that an attack was imminent.

Is it just me or is there a pattern developing with the Bush administration?

The FBI seem to have dropped the senate Anthrax investigation. I find it odd that the anthrax in question was likely made in the U.S.A.. I guess this was just a way to sent Daschle a message.

Originally posted by ScottSolomon
I guess this was just a way to sent Daschle a message.

You nailed it. That's <b>exactly</b> what it was.

[Griff]

Where are you going with this one Scott? Bush is a politician, that makes him evil by definition. He has and wants to keep a job controlling the lives of other people.

[wolf]

Scott, try turning down the vitriol a little.

So he's not releasing a report that has classified elements. Big damn deal. Frankly I'm not having a problem at the moment over release of a document that may well become a "how to" manual for the next time.

Or (yep, I'm wearing my tinfoil hat) what would be the utility of revealing that the hero passengers of Flight 93 didn't bring that plane down, but an F-16 did?

I'm not standing fully behind Bush at this point ... he's a politician and I don't trust any of them ... but I do think he's doing the best possible job under difficult circumstances. I don't think Gore would have managed nearly as well.

[ScottSolomon]

He refused to release the sections of the report that were already in the public domain. Read the article.

release of a document that may well become a "how to" manual for the next time.

So, it is better to not know that the president and the national security team were aware of the 9-11 plan before it happened? By that logic, nothing a public official does should be held up to public scrutiny because it might instruct other people about how to undermine the public'sinterests. As an example, Enron should never have been made public because it showed other companies how to create feedback loops for corporate profit.

what would be the utility of revealing that the hero passengers of Flight 93 didn't bring that plane down

That is not the issue.

It would be beneficial to the public if we knew where the errors took place and who we need to fire to correct the errors. It would help to know why John Ashcroft stopped flying publicly shortly before 9-11. It would help to know who knew what when - and why they did not alert the public about an attack that we were warned about. It would help to know why Condi Rice, Bush and others lied - to cover up their ineptitude or malfeasance.

. I don't think Gore would have managed nearly as well.

Well, that is certainly the Chris Matthews cversion of the last couple of years. I think Bush has done a horrible job but the media has covered his ass to an astounding degree.

Why do I sound so paranoid and shrill? Read below.

The Secrets of September 11
April 30, 2003

"One such CIA briefing, in July 2001, was particularly chilling and prophetic. It predicted that Osama bin Laden was about to launch a terrorist strike 'in the coming weeks,' the congressional investigators found. The intelligence briefing went on to say: 'The attack will be spectacular and designed to inflict mass casualties against U.S. facilities or interests. Attack preparations have been made. Attack will occur with little or no warning.'"
http://www.msnbc.com/news/907379.asp?0cv=CB10

FBI Warned D.C. It Was A Target
September 25, 2002

"A Minnesota FBI agent investigating Zacarias Moussaoui testified yesterday that he notified the Secret Service weeks before Sept. 11 that a terror team might hijack a plane and 'hit the nation's capital.'"
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nypost/1...T+WAS+A+TARGET

Moussaoui Warnings Ignored
September 24, 2002

"An FBI supervisor, sounding a prophetic pre-Sept. 11 alarm, warned FBI headquarters that student pilot Zacarias Moussaoui was so dangerous he might 'take control of a plane and fly it into the World Trade Center,' a congressional investigator said in a report Tuesday."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...2&cid=512&ncid
=716&e=4&u=/ap/20020924/ap_on_go_co/attacks_intelligence

America had 12 warnings of aircraft attack
September 19, 2002

"American intelligence received many more clues before the 11 September attacks than previously disclosed, that terrorists might hijack planes and turn them into weapons, a joint congressional committee was told yesterday."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/
story.jsp?story=334633


U.S. Was Aware on bin Laden Threat
September 19, 2002

"Basically, we know that bin Laden had the means and the intent to attack Americans, both at home and abroad."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...2&cid=512&ncid
=716&e=5&u=/ap/20020919/ap_on_go_co/attacks_intelligence

9/11 Probers Say Agencies Failed to Heed Attack Signs
September 19, 2002

"U.S. intelligence agencies received many more indications than previously disclosed that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network was planning imminent "spectacular" attacks in the summer of 2001 aimed at inflicting mass casualties."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Sep18.html

9/11 report documents credible clues
September 18, 2002

"The U.S. intelligence community received a surprising number of credible reports of a likely terrorist attack prior to Sept. 11, including some threats to domestic targets, according to a congressional report to be unveiled today."
http://www.msnbc.com/news/809370.asp?pne=msntv

U.S. knew of 12 plots for jet attacks
September 18, 2002

"Plan to attack WTC was among warnings that preceded 9/11, panel told."
http://www.msnbc.com/news/809484.asp

Panel Presents 9/11 Intelligence
September 18, 2002

"An intelligence briefing two months before the Sept. 11 attack warned that Osama bin Laden ( news - web sites) would launch a spectacular terrorist attack against U.S. or Israeli interests, congressional investigators said Wednesday."
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...=542&ncid=703&
e=1&u=/ap/20020918/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/attacks_intelligence

Spy Agencies Had Pre-9/11 Threats on U.S. Soil
September 17, 2002

"U.S. intelligence agencies picked up threats of attacks inside the United States and of using airplanes as weapons during the spring and summer before last year's Sept. 11 attacks, but were more focused on the possibility of an assault overseas, a congressional source said on Tuesday."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...2&cid=578&ncid
=578&e=1&u=/nm/20020917/ts_nm/attack_
congress_intelligence_dc

Ashcroft Flying High
July 26, 2001

"In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a "threat assessment" by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001
/07/26/national/printable303601.shtml

Bush briefed on hijacking threat before September 11
May 16, 2002

"President Bush's daily intelligence briefings in the weeks leading up to the September 11 terror attacks included a warning of the possibility that Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network would attempt to hijack a U.S.-based airliner, senior administration officials said Wednesday."
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/15/bus....11/index.html

Revealed: The Taliban minister, the US envoy and the warning of September 11 that was ignored
September 7, 2002

"Weeks before the terrorist attacks on 11 September, the United States and the United Nations ignored warnings from a secret Taliban emissary that Osama bin Laden was planning a huge attack on American soil."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=331115

Why would Osama bin Laden want to kill Dubya, his former business partner?
July 3, 2001

"A plot by Saudi master terrorist, Osama bin Laden, to assassinate Dubya during the July 20 economic summit of world leaders, was uncovered after dozens of suspected Islamic militants linked to bin Laden's international terror network were arrested in Frankfurt, Germany, and Milan, Italy, in April."
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/Hatfield
-R-091901/hatfield-r-091901.html

Bin Laden’s Relatives Evacuated From NYC
October 2, 2001

"Patrick Tyler of the New York Times is reporting from Washington: 'In the first days after the attacks on Sept. 11, the Saudi Arabian ambasador to Washington, Prince Bandar ibn Sultan, supervised the urgent evacuation of 24 members of Osama bin Laden's extended family from ther United States fearing they might be subjected to violence.'"
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0110/S00008.htm

Our Pearl Harbor: The latest NSA revelations suggest the 9-11 plot could have been foiled.
June 21, 2002

"Recent news that the National Security Agency (NSA) intercepted two messages the day before the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks -- messages that indicated imminent action -- obliges us to reconsider whether the airliner hijackings that led to 3,000 lost lives and $20 billion in property damage could have been foiled."
http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/...s-j-06-21.html


Al-Qaida monitored U.S. negotiations with Taliban over oil pipeline
June 5, 2002

"A memo by military chief Mohammed Atef raises new questions about whether failed U.S. efforts to reform Afghanistan's radical regime -- and build the pipeline -- set the stage for Sept. 11."
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/06/05/
memo/index_np.html?x

U.S. had agents inside al-Qaeda
June 4, 2002

"U.S. intelligence overheard al-Qaeda operatives discussing a major pending terrorist attack in the weeks prior to Sept. 11 and had agents inside the terror group, but the intercepts and field reports didn't specify where or when a strike might occur, according to U.S. officials. The disclosures add to a growing body of evidence to be examined in congressional hearings that open today into how the CIA, FBI and other agencies failed to seize on intelligence pointing to the deadliest terror attack in U.S. history."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/attack/...ia-attacks.htm

Heads-Up To Ashcroft Proves Threat Was Known Before 9/11
June 3, 2002

"Don't let them fool you, folks: They knew.

They might have been surprised by the ferocity of the attacks, but the highest-ranking members of the George W. Bush administration knew before Sept. 11 that something terrible was going to happen soon."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?
file=/gate/archive/2002/06/03/hsorensen.DTL

Egypt Warned U.S. of a Qaeda Plot, Mubarak Asserts
June 3, 2002

"Egyptian intelligence warned American officials about a week before Sept. 11 that Osama bin Laden's network was in the advance stages of executing a significant operation against an American target, President Hosni Mubarak said in an interview on Sunday."
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/04/national/04WARN.html

U.S. Ignored Warnings From French
May 28, 2002

"A key point in unraveling why the FBI failed to follow up leads on Al Qaeda terrorism now centers on the Bureau's contemptuously brushing aside warnings from French intelligence a few days before 9-11."
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0222/ridgeway2.php

Whopper of the Week: Condoleezza Rice Abroad at home.
May 23, 2002

"The overwhelming bulk of the evidence was that this was an attack that was likely to take place overseas."
- White House National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, in a May 16 news briefing.

"Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S."
- Title of the CIA's Aug. 6 briefing memo to President Bush . . .

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2066154

Tracking a Counterterrorism Breakdown
Timeline Shows Failure to Connect Key Clues Before Sept. 11
May 23, 2002

"Lawmakers are questioning what the administration knew and when. NPR's Mike Shuster reports on Morning Edition that government agencies had several clues that might have triggered alarms in the months before Sept. 11. But no one put them together."
http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/...ine/index.html

U.S. was warned that Moussaoui had close ties to al-Qaida, analyst says
May 23, 2002

"Who knew what, and when? Could the FBI have prevented the Sept. 11 attacks?"
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20.../index_np.html

Poppies for planes: White House hides behind veil of executive privilege
May 22, 2002

"Clinton National Security Advisor Samuel R. "Sandy" Berger was "totally preoccupied" with the prospect of a domestic terror attack. He warned his replacement, Condoleezza Rice, "You will be spending more time on this issue than on any other." Problem was, she didn't."
http://www.workingforchange.com/arti...m?ItemId=13365

The U.S. ignored foreign warnings, too
May 21, 2002

"When the hubbub about what the White House did or didn't know before Sept. 11 dies down, Congressional or other investigators should consider the specific warnings that friendly Arab intelligence services sent to Washington in the summer of 2001."
http://www.iht.com/articles/58269.html

Bush knew of terrorist plot to hijack US planes
May 20, 2002

"George Bush received specific warnings in the weeks before 11 September that an attack inside the United States was being planned by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, US government sources said yesterday."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/september1...718312,00.html

Britain warned US to expect September 11 al-Qaeda hijackings
May 19, 2002

"Britain gave President Bush a categorical warning to expect multiple airline hijackings by the al-Qaeda network a month before the September 11 attacks which killed nearly 3000 people and triggered the international war against terrorism."
http://www.sundayherald.com/24822

U.S. planned for attack on al-Qaida
May 16, 2002

"President Bush was expected to sign detailed plans for a worldwide war against al-Qaida two days before Sept. 11 but did not have the chance before the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, U.S. and foreign sources told NBC News."
http://www.msnbc.com/news/753359.asp

Bush Was Warned bin Laden Wanted to Hijack Planes
May 15, 2002

"The White House said tonight that President Bush had been warned by American intelligence agencies in early August that Osama bin Laden was seeking to hijack aircraft..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/16/politics/16INQU.html?

US agents told: Back off bin Ladens
November 7, 2001

"US special agents were told to back off the bin Laden family and the Saudi royals soon after George Bush became president, although that has all changed since September 11, it was reported today."
http://www.old.smh.com.au/news/0111/.../world100.html

Hijackers reportedly made test runs
October 11, 2001

"During a six-hour flight from Boston to Los Angeles in August, movie actor James Woods said te only passengers besides himself seated in first-class were four men who he said appeared to be Middle Eastern in origin. Woods said the four neither ate nor drank, did not read or sleep and talkedto each other in whispers.

On Sept. 12, Woods called the FBI to tell investigators about his experience. He was interviewed by agents on Sept. 13, but has had no comment."
http://www.gazettenet.com/americantr...12001/7363.htm

Bush: ‘We’re At War’
September 24th, 2001

"On Sept. 10, NEWSWEEK has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns."
http://www.msnbc.com/news/629606.asp

US 'planned attack on Taleban'
September 18, 2001

"A former Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the US was planning military action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taleban even before last week's attacks."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/
newsid_1550000/1550366.stm

Israeli security issued urgent warning to CIA of large-scale terror attacks
September 16, 2001

"ISRAELI intelligence officials say that they warned their counterparts in the United States last month that large-scale terrorist attacks on highly visible targets on the American mainland were imminent."
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$52PMOXQAAD
W5PQFIQMGSFFOAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2001/09/16/wcia16.xml&sShe
et=/news/2001/09/16/ixhome

Willie Brown got low-key early warning about air travel
September 12, 2001

For Mayor Willie Brown, the first signs that something was amiss came late Monday when he got a call from what he described as his airport security - - a full eight hours before yesterday's string of terrorist attacks -- advising him that Americans should be cautious about their air travel.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=
/chronicle/archive/2001/09/12/MN229389.DTL

Commission warned Bush
September 12, 2001

"But on Wednesday, two former senators, the bipartisan co-chairs of a Defense Department-chartered commission on national security, spoke with something between frustration and regret about how White House officials failed to embrace any of the recommendations to prevent acts of domestic terrorism delivered earlier this year."
http://www.salon.com/politics/featur...ush/index.html

Jeb Bush signs Executive Order allowing him to declare martial law in Florida...
September 7, 2001

"Based on the potential massive damage to life and property that may result from an act of terrorism at a Florida port, the necessity to protect life and property from such acts of terrorism..."
http://sun6.dms.state.fl.us/eog_new/eog/orders/
2001/september/eo2001-261-09-07-01.html

[ScottSolomon]

Some of those links may have died since I added them to favorites. Let me know which ones died and I will look in LexisNexis for the culprit.

[juju]

Oh, look, it's the post that sent Undertoad over the edge.

Brevity, man. Brevity.

[wolf]

And the majority of the intelligence failures can be laid at the feet of the Clinton Administration.

It's not ALL Bush, Scott.

[ScottSolomon]

Actually, that is not true, Wolf. The Gore Commission Report on Aviation Safety & Security along with numerous other classified and unclassified reports were all created and compiled by the Clinton administration then passed on to Bush when he took office. Bush was briefed on these issues. For months before September, the CIA and the FBI were receiving warnings from other nation's intelligence agencies, internal watchdogs were trying to make noise, and the actions of Ashcroft and the U.S. security aparatus indicate knowledge of an impending attack. He had the choice to reacte or to wait. For whatever reason, he chose not to reacte.

[CodeBlue40]

Damn it, why can't the aliens come down and attack us now? That way, we can all be friends after Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum save us.

[ScottSolomon]

Obviously a consipracy occurred on 9-11. A large group of people conspired to kill a lot of Americans in multiple sites of attack.

The issue is how many other people were involved and how many other people knew about it. To simply dismiss it because the media catagorizes the 9-11 conspiracy with big foot and UFOs is illogical and stupid. If you look at all of the pieces - you see that there is a very disturbing chain of events that has been unfolding for years now. There were a lot of points along the way that anyone with half a brain could have connected the dots and created a security plan - or at least informed the public. Nothing was done.

The U.S. changed after 9-11. The Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, the PATRIOT Act, the jingoistic shift in the media were all predicated upon 9-11. The tragedy has been a great boon to Bush - and anybody with Rove's knowledge of history would understand that a Reichstaag fire would really benefit a hawkish president. Is it not unreasonable to thnk that they let it happen?

We already know that they lied to start a war. They are lying to push a tax cut for the rich. They lied about homeland security.

How many lies does it take to get you to notice that the emperor is naked?

[SteveDallas]

Ah, goodness... is the Reichstag fire enough to invoke Godwin's Law?

[xoxoxoBruce]

No one should ever be bitten by a shark because the gumint knows damn well the ocean is full of them.

20/20 hindsight and righteous indignation.....sigh.
Oh, and a soapbox. Don't forget the fuckin' soapbox.

[ScottSolomon]

Come on - I was using the concept of the reichstaag fire - I could have used sinking of the Maine , but the Reichstaag fire is a little more famous. If you want to invoke Godwin's Law, I will aquiesce and stop posting on this thread.

No one should ever be bitten by a shark because the gumint knows damn well the ocean is full of them

Set up a straw man and knock it down. Well done. If you decide you want to actually evaluate anything before you dismiss the idea, here is a good place to start:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/index.html

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe Bush really did not know anything about terrorists, airplanes, and the WTC - like Condi Rice said. If, however, they did know, would you even be able to acknowledge it? Would you think that the ends justified the means?

Yes, hindsght is 20:20. When anybody does an investigation, they try to work their way back from the event - along the way the find pieces of information that point the investigator in different directions. Simply because a person can discern a pattern after the fact does not necessarily mean that the pattern did not exist or that it was an aberration.

Are you really aware of the information that you are so readily dismissing?

I am not standing on a soapbox. i am just trying to make a point. I think Bush is a crooked elitist f*ck, and I am trying to prove it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Not a straw man, a verbal picture to save a thousand words.
Bush is a man. One man. Do you really think he reads any of these zillions of reports the feds generate? C'mon. Synopsis is the word. Pasteurized, homogenized, triple distilled, combed and culled. Even his staff and advisors don't see a thing that umpty nine people haven't folded, spindled and mutilated.
Mr President, we have a pretty good idea that terrorists are going to attack the USA.
Bush,( thinking USS Cole, embassy bombings,etc) Well if we do everything we can to prevent it, the economy goes right down the crapper. Complete disruption. Tell the FBI and Cia to try to get specifics. Next item.
Now I really don't think that's a farfetched scenario.
Nobody was thinking 9/11 except the terrorists.
Mistakes were made, but it was a lot of little ones and not a whopper.