"For God and Country"

lumberjim · 03-18-2004, 05:06 PM

Well what if your God IS your country?

I see parallels between the way people view their religions, and the way they view their country. Religions have some type of a charter like a bible, or Koran. Our country has the Constitution. Some of us hold this constitution in such high regard, that they put it before all other laws. Some of us hold the Bible in such high regard, that they put IT before all other laws. Some wave the flag, some wave the cross.

The vehemence with which some will defend their religious beliefs can be compared to the way we will defend our country.....A sort of Religion Patriotism. The American way, The Great White Burden. We want to force other countries into being democracies, with their own constitutions and all( even if we have to bomb them flat first), as though we're international missionaries of the American way.

Some of the most heated debates I've read on here have involved, at least partially, the seperation of Church and State. Is this because they are really so similar, that they compete for the same constituents?

at this point, this is just the germ of a thought in my noodle, but i was hoping that some of you could argue with me alittle bit, so i can test out the theory?

lumberjim · 03-18-2004, 05:14 PM

oh yeah, the theory:

I'm thinking that "patriotism" is actually a religion.

blue · 03-18-2004, 05:20 PM

Dude, 1946 posts? You joined after I did!

Seriously tho, I'm not ripping on you, in fact I'm glad you're here and post so much.

But I'm dying to know, what...the...fuck did you do before joining the Cellar?

lumberjim · 03-18-2004, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blue58
Dude, 1946 posts? You joined after I did!

Seriously tho, I'm not ripping on you, in fact I'm glad you're here and post so much.

But I'm dying to know, what...the...fuck did you do before joining the Cellar?

i made fun of jinx for doing this kind of thing.

karma.

that, and i saved up all of my ideas.

actually, i had never really taken time to look into one of these forums, because they usually are full of dimwits and kids chatting. when i happened upon the cellar, i registered because i wanted to comment on an iotd. then i came upon a thread that reached me, got involved in the discussion, and now i cant get enough.

blue · 03-18-2004, 05:39 PM

No shit, you'll be over 2000 by the weekend! ;-)

It's all good tho, I registered for IOTD initially too, didn't realize I'd be sticking around so I just used my football name.

UT, how big a hassle would it be to change my username and keep my awesome post count, etc?

Got Spode's CD today too, that thread alone is worth the price of admission to this place.

lumberjim · 03-18-2004, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blue58
that thread alone is worth the price of admission to this place.

which reminds me of the tip jar at the bottom of the first page.

and yes, blue, i may very wll hit 2k by monday. I have, occasionally, been concerned about posting "too much" but i remind myself that if everyone was careful not to post too much, and was careful to only post well thought out, and perceptive posts, this place would get pretty boring. so, i tend to shoot from the hip.....

ok ok....enough about that.. i really DO want to know what you folks think about this topic?

Undertoad · 03-18-2004, 05:53 PM

People who want a name change can PM me.

(that sounds dirty but isn't)

lumberjim · 03-18-2004, 05:56 PM

will you be letting anyone take the name "dave"?

just today, i had actually thought about just being "jim" , but, somehow i have "become" lumberjim. I think I'll keep it.

Happy Monkey · 03-18-2004, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lumberjim
just today, i had actually thought about just being "jim" , but, somehow i have "become" lumberjim. I think I'll keep it.

You think you've got it bad?
And no, I've no intention of changing.

Griff · 03-18-2004, 06:08 PM

When you listen to Bush or Hannity its easy to see that they've combined God and Country into one concept. Its convenient since you can do whatever you want as POTUS and God will smile on you. The anti-Gay marriage crowd smells like this to me. They really believe that a state recognized marriage contract has religious significance.

I think you're right about some secularists as well. I'd say the Democratic Party is often guilty of treating the state as a god especially when their high priest is running the show.

Radar is a strange case. He has contempt for religion and big government yet grovels before a piece of paper. Lysander Spooner would have something to say about Radar prostrating himself before the Constitution.

I guess I must follow a jealous God, because I find civic religion unbearable.

Happy Monkey · 03-18-2004, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griff
I think you're right about some secularists as well. I'd say the Democratic Party is often guilty of treating the state as a god especially when their high priest is running the show.

Could you elaborate? Are you referring to the idea that government can correct some inequities?

Griff · 03-18-2004, 06:45 PM

I was actually thinking more of a willingness to suspend disbelief whenever Clinton opened his mouth. I will cop to a tendency on my part not to believe that government solutions, urban planning comes to mind, won't have unintended consequences far worse than the problems they're meant to ease. After watching big government conservatives for three years, I'm starting to pine for Democratic foolishness, at least they mean well.

Happy Monkey · 03-18-2004, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griff
I was actually thinking more of a willingness to suspend disbelief whenever Clinton opened his mouth.

That's something you hold against Democrats? What did Clinton lie about, other than sex? I remember people not believing him, but just not thinking that the lie was relevant to his job.

Griff · 03-18-2004, 07:19 PM

Not the sex. The blending of fact and fiction for convenience in policy matters, the pharm plant, the Serb bombings, continuing the Iraqi sanctions, the daily sanctimony. The creative moments like when he arranged the little cross of stones fortune left for him on Normandy, turning on the sad face at the funeral, the staged lovey dovey stuff with Hillary, all very annoying, all very unnecessary, unless someone is being comforted by it. But who could possibly find comfort in any of it, unless he's serving a higher power for them... the State.

03-18-2004, 05:06 PM	#1
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	"For God and Country" Well what if your God IS your country? I see parallels between the way people view their religions, and the way they view their country. Religions have some type of a charter like a bible, or Koran. Our country has the Constitution. Some of us hold this constitution in such high regard, that they put it before all other laws. Some of us hold the Bible in such high regard, that they put IT before all other laws. Some wave the flag, some wave the cross. The vehemence with which some will defend their religious beliefs can be compared to the way we will defend our country.....A sort of Religion Patriotism. The American way, The Great White Burden. We want to force other countries into being democracies, with their own constitutions and all( even if we have to bomb them flat first), as though we're international missionaries of the American way. Some of the most heated debates I've read on here have involved, at least partially, the seperation of Church and State. Is this because they are really so similar, that they compete for the same constituents? at this point, this is just the germ of a thought in my noodle, but i was hoping that some of you could argue with me alittle bit, so i can test out the theory? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

03-18-2004, 05:14 PM	#2
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	oh yeah, the theory: I'm thinking that "patriotism" is actually a religion. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

03-18-2004, 05:20 PM	#3
blue Operations Operative Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Northern WI Posts: 739	Dude, 1946 posts? You joined after I did! Seriously tho, I'm not ripping on you, in fact I'm glad you're here and post so much. But I'm dying to know, what...the...fuck did you do before joining the Cellar? __________________ If you spot a tornado, always remember to point at it, yell "tornado!", and run like hell.

03-18-2004, 05:39 PM	#5
blue Operations Operative Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Northern WI Posts: 739	No shit, you'll be over 2000 by the weekend! ;-) It's all good tho, I registered for IOTD initially too, didn't realize I'd be sticking around so I just used my football name. UT, how big a hassle would it be to change my username and keep my awesome post count, etc? Got Spode's CD today too, that thread alone is worth the price of admission to this place. __________________ If you spot a tornado, always remember to point at it, yell "tornado!", and run like hell.

03-18-2004, 05:56 PM	#8
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	you'll probably bitch slap me for this will you be letting anyone take the name "dave"? just today, i had actually thought about just being "jim" , but, somehow i have "become" lumberjim. I think I'll keep it. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

03-18-2004, 05:53 PM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	People who want a name change can PM me. (that sounds dirty but isn't)

03-18-2004, 06:08 PM	#10
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	When you listen to Bush or Hannity its easy to see that they've combined God and Country into one concept. Its convenient since you can do whatever you want as POTUS and God will smile on you. The anti-Gay marriage crowd smells like this to me. They really believe that a state recognized marriage contract has religious significance. I think you're right about some secularists as well. I'd say the Democratic Party is often guilty of treating the state as a god especially when their high priest is running the show. Radar is a strange case. He has contempt for religion and big government yet grovels before a piece of paper. Lysander Spooner would have something to say about Radar prostrating himself before the Constitution. I guess I must follow a jealous God, because I find civic religion unbearable. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

03-18-2004, 06:45 PM	#12
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I was actually thinking more of a willingness to suspend disbelief whenever Clinton opened his mouth. I will cop to a tendency on my part not to believe that government solutions, urban planning comes to mind, won't have unintended consequences far worse than the problems they're meant to ease. After watching big government conservatives for three years, I'm starting to pine for Democratic foolishness, at least they mean well. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

03-18-2004, 07:19 PM	#14
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Not the sex. The blending of fact and fiction for convenience in policy matters, the pharm plant, the Serb bombings, continuing the Iraqi sanctions, the daily sanctimony. The creative moments like when he arranged the little cross of stones fortune left for him on Normandy, turning on the sad face at the funeral, the staged lovey dovey stuff with Hillary, all very annoying, all very unnecessary, unless someone is being comforted by it. But who could possibly find comfort in any of it, unless he's serving a higher power for them... the State. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode