What's more current than the weather?

[henry quirk]

"Wrong you said... "cage, not wall... you: locked in... I'll visit, take a gander, toss you treats"

And just before that...


Quote: Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce The plot...

(my response):...to build a gilded cage, lil bird


Context, Bruce. A cage is being built, once you're in it, I'll visit, toss you treats.

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"But I'm not locked in anything or anyplace."

You will be.

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"Now you sound like tw. 'You're not smart enough to understand'"

I can live with that, and, you're not.

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"why the fuck do you think those laws got passed in the first place?"

Bastids did bad things, opportunists saw the chance to put everyone under thumb instead of just punishing the bastids.

Anecdote: a friend of mine in NY works for an engineering firm. She relayed this to me...

For a long time: everyone had unfettered net access. One guy abused it, surfed for porn. I.T. caught him. What shoulda happened: he gets punished, everyone else is left alone. What did happen: everyone lost net access.

Folks like you say the good must suffer for the bad. Folks like me say punish the guilty and leave the rest alone.

You say: guilty till proven innocent.

I say: innocent till proven guilty.

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Anyway: enough. We don't see eye to eye. You, keep workin' for what I see as shackles and muzzles, and I'll keep workin' for what you see as destructive anarchy.

'nuff said.

[xoxoxoBruce]

How do you punish corporations unless what their doing is against the law?
You've been playing with a stacked Ouija board or listening to the Idaho crowd too much.
So what will you do when you can't get safe drinking water anymore, tell your kids to drink whiskey?

[henry quirk]

I've covered all this before in-forum.

Read closely, cuz I ain't doin' this no more.


The individual owns himself.

He has a right to his life, liberty, and property.

His life, liberty, or property is only forfeit, in part or in whole, if he knowingly, willingly, deprives another of his life, liberty, or property.


From these first principles you form a minarchy. A function of a minarchy is the constabulary & court.

So: if Corp X pisses in your cornflakes (knowingly, willingly, deprives you of life, liberty, or property), file your complaint, plead your case.

Now: if you really wanna know more (and you don't), go do your own damned research. Start with 'minarchy'.

[tw]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

His life, liberty, or property is only forfeit, in part or in whole, if he knowingly, willingly, deprives another of his life, liberty, or property.

Which defines a patriotic American. Anti-Americans (Timothy McVeight, henry quirk) only want to wreck shit. They both share a common belief. Want to screw current and following generations to satisfy self serving desires and emotions.

[henry quirk]

.

[tw]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

butt out, tw

Did almighty henry quirk get angry again? Apparently a routine emotion among the Timothy McVeighs who only want to "wreck shit".

Just thought I would mention it for the few who still do not know your repeatedly stated objective. Did you also need a reminder? Glad to help.

[henry quirk]

What shit? Who's shit?

The shit of every jackass (folks like yourself) who'd have me be sumthin' other than self-owned and self-directing.

Trump is a blunt instrument: yours is the head I hired him to thump. As long as he does that, he can -- as I've said many times-- court any debbil he likes.

Now: in the future, get it right or zip it.

And, for the record, this...

The individual owns himself.

He has a right to his life, liberty, and property.

His life, liberty, or property is only forfeit, in part or in whole, if he knowingly, willingly, deprives another of his life, liberty, or property.

...isn't about patriotism, or moderation.

Self-ownership & life, liberty, property are first principles, foundations for civilization & civilized (minimal) self-governance, nuthin' more or less.

Again: get it right or zip it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

First of all you can't have a minarchy without everyone on board, well 2/3rds anyway, and it would have to be on land no nation claims or attempting it would be sedition. I can't see it coming to fruition on a ship, too many uncooperative individuals.

Originally Posted by henry quirk

From these first principles you form a minarchy. A function of a minarchy is the constabulary & court.

So: if Corp X pisses in your cornflakes (knowingly, willingly, deprives you of life, liberty, or property), file your complaint, plead your case.

What case? unless CorpX violated some rule, some law, you have no case. Going in to depend on a ruling in your favor because your bitch is just? Fugetaboutit, Corp X supplies half the jobs in the minarchy, and free Corp X beer to the court & constabulary. Free beer beats the milk of human kindness every time. So Corp X can kill 10% of the minarchy but nobody can prove it because there's no government arm with the authority to dig into it.

No, democracy is best, not what we have now because the lazy voters have abdicated their roll and the 1% have gladly taken over for them. And it sounds too simple, but all it takes is the voters getting involved. The only thing various groups must agree on is not letting the politicians off the hook. Don't let them be bought, if they are bounce them out. It may seem that justice is moving glacially slow, but it's safer that way, and it does get done.

Now: if you really wanna know more (and you don't), go do your own damned research. Start with 'minarchy'.

Does not compute Been kicking the idea around for 150 years and there still isn't any. Basically it's regressive, back to the stone age.

[henry quirk]

"First of all you can't have a minarchy without everyone on board, well 2/3rds anyway"

Sure you can. Do you even know what a minarchy is? You coulda googled it, but obviously didn't, indicatin' you really aren't interested in what I have to say, or in my view. You're just reactin' to havin' the status quo (you on the dole, Bruce?) threatened.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state

In libertarian political philosophy, a night-watchman state is a model of a state whose only functions are to provide its citizens with the military, the police, and courts, thus protecting them from aggression, theft, breach of contract, fraud, and enforcing property laws

I would add 'militia' to the functions cuz when the other three get uppity, the militia (that's 'us') get to shoot 'em in the ass with rock salt.

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"it would have to be on land no nation claims or attempting it would be sedition."

Or: America could become an minarchy. Many folks live as though they were in a minarchy already. I do. Bettin' you don't.

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"What case? unless CorpX violated some rule, some law, you have no case."

The rule, the law is: don't knowingly, willingly, deprive another of his life, liberty, or property. That pretty much covers any complaint you might have against Corp X, your neighbor, some stranger, etc. The standard you have to meet as accuser (the standard the accused has to beat) is right there, plain as day.

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"So Corp X can kill 10% of the minarchy but nobody can prove it because {b}there's no government arm with the authority to dig into it[/b]."

Sure there is: the constabulary (that there is the po-po) and the courts (that there is the courts).

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"No, democracy is best"

How would you know? If you live in America you've never lived in a democracy. No, Bruce, America is a constitutional republic. Sure, democratic process is a feature of the republic (this is called representative democracy) but strictly within the boundaries of the national and state charters/constitutions.

That is: even if everyone wants to, no one can vote for me to be sequestered away 'just because'. In a democracy the majority could vote to have me jailed ('just because'), you neutered, and tw installed as King of the Hill. It is precisely to hobble the collective, capricious, will of the people and (promote individual sovereignty) that we don't have a democracy.

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"Been kicking the idea around for 150 years and there still isn't any. Basically it's regressive, back to the stone age."

Yeah, there's never been a true communism in the world either and that doesn't stop folks from tryin'. The best they can do is the horrid state communisms & socialisms that have killed millions. Pure communism (pretty horrid on paper, to me anyay) can't work cuz it flies in the face of human nature, so these ravenous state-run strains are the best advocates can muster.

Natural rights libertarianism, on the other hand (and the minarchy that can extend out from it) is wholly in line with what humans are, how they think, what they want, which is, of course, why certain folks oppose such things and lobby hard for strains of communism. Folks in power or who crave power can't have any real power in a minarchy, but they can loads of it in the state-communism (as they supposedly work for, but never reach, pure or true communism).

Just look to history, Bruce. Liberty always increases. We've moved from pre-historic systems where few controlled many to a place where many (as individuals) largely control themselves. the path meanders and backtracks, of course, and huge numbers of folks still labor under heel, but always, in the end, mankind moves away from kings and queens and aristocracy, away from rulers and dictators and tyrants, away from centralized governance toward individual self-direction and responsibility, toward a minimizing of control, toward a diffusing of power. America is a prime example of this. Despite (not because of) America's powerful centralized government, the average individual enjoys unprecedented freedom, not as a gift from the powerful but as birthright. That so many work overtly to reduce that individual freedom (the whole of the Democrat party, the majority of the Republican party, and a nice friggin' chunk of the Libertarian party, are three examples that come to mind) sez a lot. As I say elsewhere: they trade away autonomy to supposedly preserve autonomy. Madness.

A minarchy, foundationed on natural rights, is what lies next on the hit parade. The positve inertia is at work. it can be delayed by not denied. Individuals want to be free.

As for being regressive: that you think being free is regressive sez alot about you, Bruce.

I guess bein' controlled, under heel & thumb (bein' 'safe' is how it's marketed) is 'progressvie', yeah?

[xoxoxoBruce]

As a matter of fact I googled minarchy and read that Wiki Night Watchman State back when you first mentioned it. Struck me as great on paper and impossible in reality. First and foremost where, sail the Mayflower to the New World? There is no available land anymore that's not spoken for. The only way is to have the power to grab and hold from someone else. That won't happen because you'd be fighting the rest of the world.

So you think your po-po and court have the ability to ferret out evil Corp X's dirty deeds? Good luck with that. Your claim is the standard the accuser has to beat? All they have to do is no we didn't to beat that standard
Plus anyone who whines about being treated unfairly will get a full effort by the said same po-po and courts to investigate their claims? That would be like the FBI investigating every bad Yelp review.

If everyone but a few semantics freaks call the US a democracy, it's a democracy. A minarchy is is stone age, back before...
Empires ruled by Emperors,
Kingdoms ruled by Kings,
and Countries ...

[henry quirk]

"There is no available land anymore that's not spoken for. The only way is to have the power to grab and hold from someone else."

Or: Americans could get tired of commies tryin' to leash them. Might take awhile, but it's possible Americans could -- piece by piece -- vote themselves into minimal government. You'll, of course, lose your welfare check. Too bad. So sad. Get thee to a charity.

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"So you think your po-po and court have the ability to ferret out evil Corp X's dirty deeds?"

Sure, why wouldn't they?

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"Your claim is the standard the accuser has to beat? All they have to do is no we didn't to beat that standard."

It's really no different than it is now: you claim Corp X did wrong. Prove your case.

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"Plus anyone who whines about being treated unfairly will get a full effort by the said same po-po and courts to investigate their claims?"

Is that what happens now?

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"If everyone but a few semantics freaks call the US a democracy, it's a democracy."

No, Bruce. You want it to be a democracy, but: the United States of America is constitutional republic.

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A minarchy is is stone age, back before...
Empires ruled by Emperors,
Kingdoms ruled by Kings,
and Countries ..."

So, before all that: cave dwellers and nomads and tribesmen had police and courts and millitary that existed with the sole purpose of securing the individual's life, liberty, and property? Well, hell: if that's the case, let's go pre-historic!