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Old 08-14-2019, 04:15 PM   #1891
henry quirk
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butt out, tw

.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:01 PM   #1892
tw
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Originally Posted by henry quirk View Post
butt out, tw
Did almighty henry quirk get angry again? Apparently a routine emotion among the Timothy McVeighs who only want to "wreck shit".

Just thought I would mention it for the few who still do not know your repeatedly stated objective. Did you also need a reminder? Glad to help.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:24 PM   #1893
henry quirk
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My objective, the thing I hired Trump to do: wreck shit.

What shit? Who's shit?

The shit of every jackass (folks like yourself) who'd have me be sumthin' other than self-owned and self-directing.

Trump is a blunt instrument: yours is the head I hired him to thump. As long as he does that, he can -- as I've said many times-- court any debbil he likes.

Now: in the future, get it right or zip it.

And, for the record, this...

The individual owns himself.

He has a right to his life, liberty, and property.

His life, liberty, or property is only forfeit, in part or in whole, if he knowingly, willingly, deprives another of his life, liberty, or property.


...isn't about patriotism, or moderation.

Self-ownership & life, liberty, property are first principles, foundations for civilization & civilized (minimal) self-governance, nuthin' more or less.

Again: get it right or zip it.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:10 PM   #1894
tw
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What shit? Who's shit?
A four letter word. And you don't know what it means? Best go back to extremist school for a refresher course.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:23 PM   #1895
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error noted: whose

you, zipping it: good job...keep it up
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:58 AM   #1896
xoxoxoBruce
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First of all you can't have a minarchy without everyone on board, well 2/3rds anyway, and it would have to be on land no nation claims or attempting it would be sedition. I can't see it coming to fruition on a ship, too many uncooperative individuals.

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From these first principles you form a minarchy. A function of a minarchy is the constabulary & court.

So: if Corp X pisses in your cornflakes (knowingly, willingly, deprives you of life, liberty, or property), file your complaint, plead your case.
What case? unless CorpX violated some rule, some law, you have no case. Going in to depend on a ruling in your favor because your bitch is just? Fugetaboutit, Corp X supplies half the jobs in the minarchy, and free Corp X beer to the court & constabulary. Free beer beats the milk of human kindness every time. So Corp X can kill 10% of the minarchy but nobody can prove it because there's no government arm with the authority to dig into it.

No, democracy is best, not what we have now because the lazy voters have abdicated their roll and the 1% have gladly taken over for them. And it sounds too simple, but all it takes is the voters getting involved. The only thing various groups must agree on is not letting the politicians off the hook. Don't let them be bought, if they are bounce them out. It may seem that justice is moving glacially slow, but it's safer that way, and it does get done.


Quote:
Now: if you really wanna know more (and you don't), go do your own damned research. Start with 'minarchy'.
Does not compute Been kicking the idea around for 150 years and there still isn't any. Basically it's regressive, back to the stone age.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:19 AM   #1897
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"First of all you can't have a minarchy without everyone on board, well 2/3rds anyway"

Sure you can. Do you even know what a minarchy is? You coulda googled it, but obviously didn't, indicatin' you really aren't interested in what I have to say, or in my view. You're just reactin' to havin' the status quo (you on the dole, Bruce?) threatened.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state

In libertarian political philosophy, a night-watchman state is a model of a state whose only functions are to provide its citizens with the military, the police, and courts, thus protecting them from aggression, theft, breach of contract, fraud, and enforcing property laws

I would add 'militia' to the functions cuz when the other three get uppity, the militia (that's 'us') get to shoot 'em in the ass with rock salt.

#

"it would have to be on land no nation claims or attempting it would be sedition."

Or: America could become an minarchy. Many folks live as though they were in a minarchy already. I do. Bettin' you don't.

#

"What case? unless CorpX violated some rule, some law, you have no case."

The rule, the law is: don't knowingly, willingly, deprive another of his life, liberty, or property. That pretty much covers any complaint you might have against Corp X, your neighbor, some stranger, etc. The standard you have to meet as accuser (the standard the accused has to beat) is right there, plain as day.

#

"So Corp X can kill 10% of the minarchy but nobody can prove it because {b}there's no government arm with the authority to dig into it[/b]."

Sure there is: the constabulary (that there is the po-po) and the courts (that there is the courts).

#

"No, democracy is best"

How would you know? If you live in America you've never lived in a democracy. No, Bruce, America is a constitutional republic. Sure, democratic process is a feature of the republic (this is called representative democracy) but strictly within the boundaries of the national and state charters/constitutions.

That is: even if everyone wants to, no one can vote for me to be sequestered away 'just because'. In a democracy the majority could vote to have me jailed ('just because'), you neutered, and tw installed as King of the Hill. It is precisely to hobble the collective, capricious, will of the people and (promote individual sovereignty) that we don't have a democracy.

#

"Been kicking the idea around for 150 years and there still isn't any. Basically it's regressive, back to the stone age."

Yeah, there's never been a true communism in the world either and that doesn't stop folks from tryin'. The best they can do is the horrid state communisms & socialisms that have killed millions. Pure communism (pretty horrid on paper, to me anyay) can't work cuz it flies in the face of human nature, so these ravenous state-run strains are the best advocates can muster.

Natural rights libertarianism, on the other hand (and the minarchy that can extend out from it) is wholly in line with what humans are, how they think, what they want, which is, of course, why certain folks oppose such things and lobby hard for strains of communism. Folks in power or who crave power can't have any real power in a minarchy, but they can loads of it in the state-communism (as they supposedly work for, but never reach, pure or true communism).

Just look to history, Bruce. Liberty always increases. We've moved from pre-historic systems where few controlled many to a place where many (as individuals) largely control themselves. the path meanders and backtracks, of course, and huge numbers of folks still labor under heel, but always, in the end, mankind moves away from kings and queens and aristocracy, away from rulers and dictators and tyrants, away from centralized governance toward individual self-direction and responsibility, toward a minimizing of control, toward a diffusing of power. America is a prime example of this. Despite (not because of) America's powerful centralized government, the average individual enjoys unprecedented freedom, not as a gift from the powerful but as birthright. That so many work overtly to reduce that individual freedom (the whole of the Democrat party, the majority of the Republican party, and a nice friggin' chunk of the Libertarian party, are three examples that come to mind) sez a lot. As I say elsewhere: they trade away autonomy to supposedly preserve autonomy. Madness.

A minarchy, foundationed on natural rights, is what lies next on the hit parade. The positve inertia is at work. it can be delayed by not denied. Individuals want to be free.

As for being regressive: that you think being free is regressive sez alot about you, Bruce.

I guess bein' controlled, under heel & thumb (bein' 'safe' is how it's marketed) is 'progressvie', yeah?
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:51 AM   #1898
xoxoxoBruce
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As a matter of fact I googled minarchy and read that Wiki Night Watchman State back when you first mentioned it. Struck me as great on paper and impossible in reality. First and foremost where, sail the Mayflower to the New World? There is no available land anymore that's not spoken for. The only way is to have the power to grab and hold from someone else. That won't happen because you'd be fighting the rest of the world.

So you think your po-po and court have the ability to ferret out evil Corp X's dirty deeds? Good luck with that. Your claim is the standard the accuser has to beat? All they have to do is no we didn't to beat that standard
Plus anyone who whines about being treated unfairly will get a full effort by the said same po-po and courts to investigate their claims? That would be like the FBI investigating every bad Yelp review.

If everyone but a few semantics freaks call the US a democracy, it's a democracy. A minarchy is is stone age, back before...
Empires ruled by Emperors,
Kingdoms ruled by Kings,
and Countries ...
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:59 AM   #1899
henry quirk
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"There is no available land anymore that's not spoken for. The only way is to have the power to grab and hold from someone else."

Or: Americans could get tired of commies tryin' to leash them. Might take awhile, but it's possible Americans could -- piece by piece -- vote themselves into minimal government. You'll, of course, lose your welfare check. Too bad. So sad. Get thee to a charity.

#

"So you think your po-po and court have the ability to ferret out evil Corp X's dirty deeds?"

Sure, why wouldn't they?

#

"Your claim is the standard the accuser has to beat? All they have to do is no we didn't to beat that standard."

It's really no different than it is now: you claim Corp X did wrong. Prove your case.

#

"Plus anyone who whines about being treated unfairly will get a full effort by the said same po-po and courts to investigate their claims?"

Is that what happens now?

#

"If everyone but a few semantics freaks call the US a democracy, it's a democracy."

No, Bruce. You want it to be a democracy, but: the United States of America is constitutional republic.

#

A minarchy is is stone age, back before...
Empires ruled by Emperors,
Kingdoms ruled by Kings,
and Countries ..."

So, before all that: cave dwellers and nomads and tribesmen had police and courts and millitary that existed with the sole purpose of securing the individual's life, liberty, and property? Well, hell: if that's the case, let's go pre-historic!
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Old 08-17-2019, 08:54 PM   #1900
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hmmm...

https://www.thegwpf.com/nir-shaviv-f...rview-with-me/

https://www.thegwpf.com/revealed-the.../?preview=true

http://www.google.com/search?q=why+d...s=heirloom-srp..
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:27 PM   #1901
xoxoxoBruce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry quirk View Post
"There is no available land anymore that's not spoken for. The only way is to have the power to grab and hold from someone else."

Or: Americans could get tired of commies tryin' to leash them. Might take awhile, but it's possible Americans could -- piece by piece -- vote themselves into minimal government. You'll, of course, lose your welfare check. Too bad. So sad. Get thee to a charity.
What welfare check is that? I've been robbed, somebody's stealing my welfare checks!!

Good luck with your pipe dream of breaking away from the USA and forming your little minarchy disregarding state and federal laws. Does the name Warthog ring a bell?

They backed off on the ranchers stealing my grass to prevent bad publicity, but try to take US territory they'll fuck you up.
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:23 PM   #1902
henry quirk
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"Good luck with your pipe dream of breaking away from the USA"

The day may come when there are more folks like me (who want less governance) than folks like you (who want more).

Time will tell.
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:29 PM   #1903
xoxoxoBruce
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That doesn't fucking matter, it's not a democracy remember, no majority rule.
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:36 PM   #1904
henry quirk
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no, it's not a democracy, but we do get to vote...

...imagine the majority voting libertarian (dismantling your beloved government down to its strict constitutional base) while you vote democrat (voting for more government, but never gettin' it).

Glory Days.
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:51 PM   #1905
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What was this thread about, again? I've forgotten..
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