The Legislative Branch has no oversight responsibility over the White House.

[warch]

I was also around for Nixon's fall and pardon....granted a young thing yet....but this adminstration's constellation of unprecedented power consolidation, manipulation and strategery- from signing statements, to political favors, to secret tapping, to torture, to haliburton, to abramoff, to plame, to misinformation and press manipulation, mismanagement, to secret prisons, to message leakage, to justice firing, to CIA tinkering and executive privilege... is making the break-in and Nixon taped arrogance look like the junior varsity. Many of the same crooks all grown up.

It may seem I am bashing Bush, but I am merely paying attention.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by warch

It may seem I am bashing Bush, but I am merely paying attention.

The Nixon Gang were pikers compared to this crowd.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by warch

I was also around for Nixon's fall and pardon....granted a young thing yet....but this adminstration's constellation of unprecedented power consolidation, manipulation and strategery- from signing statements, to political favors, to secret tapping, to torture, to haliburton, to abramoff, to plame, to misinformation and press manipulation, mismanagement, to secret prisons, to message leakage, to justice firing, to CIA tinkering and executive privilege... is making the break-in and Nixon taped arrogance look like the junior varsity. Many of the same crooks all grown up.

It may seem I am bashing Bush, but I am merely paying attention.

I guess we just have to disagree, no problem there. But you certainly seem smarter than to lump all of the problems and events listed above to be "Bush's Fault"?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Then Who's fault is it? The buck stops at the top. The one that sets the precedent, the one that controls his administration. If you say he doesn't control his administration, then that's another failure that's his fault.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Then Who's fault is it? The buck stops at the top. The one that sets the precedent, the one that controls his administration. If you say he doesn't control his administration, then that's another failure that's his fault.

And that is the beat of the mantra of the Left. I don't view the interdependent and complicated relationships of national and international politics in a such a simplistic manner. If it simplifies things for you by all means use "Bush's Fault" as your mantra. Many problems which surfaced in this administrations tenure have festered for more than 7 years including the events on 9/11/01. Congress carries much of the burden for current events either through action or non-action. Individuals in the administration carry responsibility for events, just because the worked for Bush does not mean "Bush did it!". The actions of a few misfit soldiers does not mean the General in charge did it, condoned it, or approved it. I am not absolving Bush of anything. He is an idiot. But he is not always responsible for the idiots under him. Persecute him in the annals of public opinion if it makes you feel better but it does not mean any of the problems are going to go away.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The actions of a few misfit soldiers does not mean the General in charge did it, condoned it, or approved it.

Just like in Nam when the president openly lied, then massacres and other criminal actions by US soldiers increased - became far more common than is publicly acknowledged. Let's just leave it to many peers who acknowledge actions by 'fellow soldiers'. It was widespread because the president was a liar. So much a liar that mail TO the troops was censored.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

And that is the beat of the mantra of the Left. I don't view the interdependent and complicated relationships of national and international politics in a such a simplistic manner.

No need to simplify. It's Bush's fault and the fault of everyone else involved. It's not coincidence that Bush hired so many bad apples. He intended to spoil the barrel.

Heck, most of the things on warch's list aren't even denied by the administration anymore. They intend it to be the way things are done.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

snip~ But he is not always responsible for the idiots under him.

The fuck he's not. He picked 'em and he's most certainly responsible for their and the rest of his administrations actions. Especially when this shit becomes public knowlege and he does nothing about it.

If a few soldiers go nuts the General is most definitely responsible and if he does not correct the situation, he's going down.... especially if he tries to keep it a secret. That football player that got fragged by his own men is the perfect example of Generals going down.......4, IIRC.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

If a few soldiers go nuts the General is most definitely responsible and if he does not correct the situation, he's going down.... especially if he tries to keep it a secret. That football player that got fragged by his own men is the perfect example of Generals going down.......4, IIRC.

That is because they proved that the generals had known about the event and were part of the supression of the truth. They should go down. In the other cases you can't prove that, so no they were not sacked.

Do you think it was fair to sack the coach of the Lacrosse team at Duke on the now totally unfounded charges of rape on the 4 players? When and where does personal responsibility start and whole scale slaughter of an organization end because of the actions of a few? Our country has a huge problem with personal responsibility, it is always someone elses fault.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Our country has a huge problem with personal responsibility, it is always someone elses fault.

That's Bush's claim at least.