Why California Sucks Ass!!!

[JuancoRocks]

Feinstein

Boxer

Waxman

ad infinitum

The Socialist Republik of Kalifornistan does your thinking for you.

[SamIam]

The Hoover Damn.

[SteveDallas]

Originally Posted by JuancoRocks

The Socialist Republik of Kalifornistan does your thinking for you.

OK, I have to play devil's advocate here. There is no state in the country where it's as easy as it is in California to change the law via direct ballot action. Yet you suggest that the government is an independent entity that thinks for the citizens. What's the deal?

[BigV]

Originally Posted by SteveDallas

OK, I have to play devil's advocate here. There is no state in the country where it's as easy as it is in California to change the law via direct ballot action. Yet you suggest that the government is an independent entity that thinks for the citizens. What's the deal?

The deal is that the system is dysfunctional, if not broken.

There's a reason we have elected representatives. Professionals, or semi-pro, to do the work of legislation. When (seemingly) every law is challenged by a ballot proposition, what's the point of having a government that makes laws?

There have been some spectacular failures of successful ballot initiatives. Prop 13 comes to mind. The unintended consequences of that well intentioned measure were devastating to the public schools. There were other tax funded organizations that suffered greatly.

My point is that it is easy, too easy, to write a thunderously pandering proposition, gather the signatures and votes, without adequate regard to overall effect.

Additionally, we had these things on the ballot ALL THE DAMN TIME. I don't want to be a legislator. I "hired" someone to do that for me, and my neighbors. I don't want to walk around behind him, redoing all his work.

[smoothmoniker]

Originally Posted by BigV

There have been some spectacular failures of successful ballot initiatives. Prop 13 comes to mind. The unintended consequences of that well intentioned measure were devastating to the public schools. There were other tax funded organizations that suffered greatly.

The alternative to to Prop 13 is to force people to move out of homes they've lived in their entire lives when an insane real estate bubble shoots the price of their home up by 100% in 5 years.

When my dad retired, his home was worth 1.1 million. It's a modest 3 bedroom track home in a very hot real estate market. Without prop 13, my dad would have had to come up with $11,000 a year to stay in his home. If he couldn't make that payment on his retirement pension, he would have been forced to sell his home.

The alternative to prop 13 is to leave long-term homeowners hostage to the inflated prices jacked up by speculators and foolish buyers.

[SteveDallas]

Originally Posted by BigV

The deal is that the system is dysfunctional, if not broken.

I'll stipulate your points. (Notice I never suggested it was a good system.) But my original comment was about a post that suggested that the gummint does people's thinking for them, and I don't see that out of what you describe,

[Radar]

Originally Posted by BigV

There have been some spectacular failures of successful ballot initiatives. Prop 13 comes to mind. The unintended consequences of that well intentioned measure were devastating to the public schools. There were other tax funded organizations that suffered greatly.

Prop 13 didn't harm public schools, making them PUBLIC is what wrecked them. Allowing the government, especially the federal government to be involved in the funding, planning, building, testing, or designing curriculum of our schools is a nightmare.

I have to admit I was pretty angry after the last vote. We had a proposition (Prop 98) on the ballot to eliminate eminent domain for private use. It would have prevented politicians and wealthy developers from stealing someones home, rentals, business, or place of worship simply because something else would provide more tax dollars. It would have protected real property from people.

The developers, and the league of California cities, and counties, etc. created another proposition to sink the first one. They made a proposition that offered no protection at all and paid millions and millions of dollars to scare the crap out of old people and socialists by claiming Prop 98 would end rent control. Prop 98 didn't end rent control for anyone that was already renting under it....even though it should.

The scumbags got their way and the idiots of the state voted down the only protection they could get from having their property stolen from them, or their friends, neighbors, and relatives.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Radar

snip--
I have to admit I was pretty angry after the last vote. We had a proposition (Prop 98) on the ballot to eliminate eminent domain for private use. It would have prevented politicians and wealthy developers from stealing someones home, rentals, business, or place of worship simply because something else would provide more tax dollars. It would have protected real property from people.

The developers, and the league of California cities, and counties, etc. created another proposition to sink the first one. They made a proposition that offered no protection at all and paid millions and millions of dollars to scare the crap out of old people and socialists by claiming Prop 98 would end rent control. Prop 98 didn't end rent control for anyone that was already renting under it....even though it should.

The scumbags got their way and the idiots of the state voted down the only protection they could get from having their property stolen from them, or their friends, neighbors, and relatives.

Thank you for providing further evidence for my point.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Radar

Prop 13 didn't harm public schools, making them PUBLIC is what wrecked them. Allowing the government, especially the federal government to be involved in the funding, planning, building, testing, or designing curriculum of our schools is a nightmare.
--snip

You forgot to pack your eloquence for this trip out to the interwebz. I understand what you're saying, but, in addition to being fundamentally wrong, you misleadingly conflate the big bad Feds with what it takes to make a school system succeed. I'm just sayin.