Russian attack on country of Georgia

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

There were a lot of neocons in the region just this July. Both Condi and Rove had talks with Mr. Saakashvili during this visit. And even McCains foreign policy adviser was there...he is a lobbyist for Georgia.

Well there you have it!

"It's Bush's Fault!"

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well there you have it!

"It's Bush's Fault!"

Bush is an idiot and ...anyway, not the source. By neocons, I mean the group that surrounds him and basically pull his strings. It does seem that a lot of the people involved in our foreign policy were in the area in July. The White House is currently trying to downplay the meetings, but its hard to ignore the coincidence.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Bush is an idiot and ...anyway, not the source. By neocons, I mean the group that surrounds him and basically pull his strings. It does seem that a lot of the people involved in our foreign policy were in the area in July. The White House is currently trying to downplay the meetings, but its hard to ignore the coincidence.

It is also easy to believe conspiracy theories when they fit your preconceived notions about what you want to believe.

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

It is also easy to believe conspiracy theories when they fit your preconceived notions about what you want to believe.

What conspiracy theory are you thinking I believe in? Maybe its the same as yours. Because I believe, like you, that this could be part of the 'new' energy wars to come. But, I also believe that our incursions into Afghanistan and Iraq were too.

[lookout123]

yeah, cuz buildings falling down had nothing to do with afghanistan.

[Griff]

The world is sufficiently complicated to contain both those ideas.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Griff

The world is sufficiently complicated to contain both those ideas.

Hell if we just wanted oil we would have invaded any numerous other countries with half the armies and a shorter distance at half the cost. Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Nigeria, yea, there is a long list. We only get about 15% of our oil from the Middle East.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

But, I also believe that our incursions into Afghanistan and Iraq were too.

That I do not believe and challenge you to prove your assertions.

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by lookout123

yeah, cuz buildings falling down had nothing to do with Afghanistan.

Afghanistan was responsible for 9/11? Huh.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That I do not believe and challenge you to prove your assertions.

My assertions are based on the research I did at the time. I discovered that there were several oil companies that needed a much calmer Afghanistan so that they could build a couple of planned pipelines. The Taliban were getting greedy and wanted a bigger cut of the action. I also discovered that Saddam was planning some sweet oil package deals with China and Russia to be set in motion once he was free of the sanctions. AND he was talking about dealing with euros instead of dollars. I cant say any of that is proof, but it sure did keep me from believing the propaganda we were given.

[lookout123]

See, there was this organization called Taliban and a guy named Osama B... oh nevermind, just straighten your tin foil hat, it'll be easier.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Afghanistan was responsible for 9/11? Huh.




My assertions are based on the research I did at the time. I discovered that there were several oil companies that needed a much calmer Afghanistan so that they could build a couple of planned pipelines. The Taliban were getting greedy and wanted a bigger cut of the action. I also discovered that Saddam was planning some sweet oil package deals with China and Russia to be set in motion once he was free of the sanctions. AND he was talking about dealing with euros instead of dollars. I cant say any of that is proof, but it sure did keep me from believing the propaganda we were given.

You have been drinking something if you believe that crap. Let me adjust your tin foil hat for ya... Tell me you were born in 1990 or something like that so I can have some compassion for you....

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

My assertions are based on the research I did at the time. I discovered that there were several oil companies that needed a much calmer Afghanistan so that they could build a couple of planned pipelines.

I posted the debunking of that one right here in February 2003. The source article is still available.

I cant say any of that is proof, but it sure did keep me from believing the propaganda we were given.

You used something you assumed to be true, to determine other things were false. Don't do that.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

I discovered that there were several oil companies that needed a much calmer Afghanistan so that they could build a couple of planned pipelines. The Taliban were getting greedy and wanted a bigger cut of the action. I also discovered that Saddam was planning some sweet oil package deals with China and Russia to be set in motion once he was free of the sanctions. AND he was talking about dealing with euros instead of dollars. I can't say any of that is proof, but it sure did keep me from believing the propaganda we were given.

I think it needs pointing out that to do anything economic in Afghanistan needs a much calmer Afghanistan, just as it would be anywhere. Poverty surrounds and follows warfare, particularly on the battlegrounds. Prosperity follows peace. The more ambitious the economic project, the more calmness is necessary.

The Taliban getting greedy -- well, the Taliban proved to have no redeeming qualities whatsoever anyway, so it's hardly extraordinary that they stirred in an extra measure of rapaciousness to add to their lame, and official, attempts at blackmailing larger economies. To have done the opposite would have been the extraordinary thing.

I'm on record as being less than impressed about any allegations of propaganda this and propaganda that. I see the entire campaign as one integrated whole -- unstable unfriendlies are not who we want in charge of oil country, preferring that local friendlies who will be most stable (to say nothing of most prosperous) under democracy be the ones running the show. Democracy and economic connectivity are the things in shortest supply in oil country nowadays. Absent the petroleum industries, the entire gross annual output of all of Araby would be about that of... Holland.

Seriously, friendlies on the oil is all the neocons ever really wanted, and the Administration's strategy shows this clearly to anyone not struck purblind by anti-Republican prejudices (which I do not share because evidence is so lacking, and which usually signify to me a mind easily led around by anticapitalist, antiglobalist morons and sharpsters). I am resistant to anti-Republican spin -- our troubles in foreign policy come from non-democracies, and the fewer of those are around, the fewer our troubles shall be. The Democrats have managed no reduction of non-democracies at all; it's all been a Republican effort, which tells me the Republicans have the wisdom of it. I think they should be appreciated for that.

The beginning of the end for Saddam Hussein was to try conquest to cover international debts, rung up because dictators typically run their financial talent, among other kinds, out of their territory. Unless the dictator himself is a major financial talent -- seldom true -- the result is increasing debt followed by material ruin. Viz., Iraq. So Saddam launched two wars, Iran-Iraq and Gulf War I, to control more of the world's oil reserves, clearly in pursuit of oil revenues. He lost both, and with the second one his life also.