Torture memos

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

You would kill the Japanese soldiers even if they weren't returning fire; you'd also kill civilians, who happened to be unlucky enough to be driving across a bridge at the wrong time, or working in a plant you destroyed.


We've already had that McClatchy story in the thread, and we've discussed it at length. The CIA IG didn't say enhanced techniques weren't effective, period; he said they weren't helpful in thwarting any specific imminent attacks.


What I find remarkable is how certain you are of the effectiveness of these methods. How could you have this level of certainty? You're at odds with the CIA interrogators whom, I'm certain, know more about it than do you or I or anybody writing for McClatchy. I'm guessing that it works because the CIA interrogators think it works. I'm also guessing that it works because I personally am a huge pussy, and would tell every intimate detail I had in order to avoid even getting tased.


I am guessing that your certainty is driven less from application of careful thought, and more from the fiery passionate hate you hold for torture. Your passion is admirable, and shows you deeply care. But don't let it burn you because at the end of the day there is no substitute for careful thought.

I'm pretty sure Jill has careful thought. She certainly seems to, from her posts anyway. My opinions, well, my opinions come from looking at different times in history when torture has been used, like the Inquisitions. Everything I've read makes me believe that evidence gained during torture is unreliable. Add to that all the experts who have testified or said in interviews that torture is an unreliable way to gain information makes me believe it even more. And my moral compass tells me it's wrong. No one can make me believe it is actually OK for a civilized country or people to act in that way, no matter what is at stake.

UT, the scenario you described above, the accidental killing of innocent victims while striking at an enemy, is far different from torturing someone who is in custody. One is collateral damage that is an accident, the other is purposeful and intentional mistreatment of someone who is already in custody.