Batman -vs- Superman - Page 3

Crimson Ghost · 06-01-2007, 12:51 AM

The original question is -

Batman -vs- Superman

No statement of the conditions of the fight, weapons allowed, or any mitigating factors.

On this basis -

Bare Knuckle Fight - No Weapons Allowed

Winner - Superman

Superman has strength, speed, and flight, just to name a few, to his advantage. No to mention Laser-vision™. He would pound the shit out of Bats.

However -

No Holds Barred -

Winner - Batman

Batman has no problem lying, cheating, stealing or killing, if he feels that it is in his best interests. Superman won't do that because of his "moral code".
-------
From http://www.bluetights.net/theplanet/...96&postcount=5
-------

When people say: "Batman can kick Superman's ass" they really mean one of three things:

1. I like Batman more and think he can do anything.
2. I think Batman can win a one-sided battle where he's prepared and Superman isn't; and I've read comics like that.
3. I think Batman can beat Superman under specific circumstances, but all things being equal, Superman will almost always win.

With Case 1, there's no arguing with them. With Case 3, I think the individual is reasonable enough and there's no need to force them to say Superman will ALWAYS win unless we're suffering from a bit of Case 1 ourselves, but with a Superman bent. I think a mixture of Case 2 and a little bit of 1 is the predominant viewpoint of people who say it.

The thing is, they typically don't acknowledge the inequality in preparation or technology... it's almost always a contrived circumstance to bring about a Bat-victory by the skin of Bruce's teeth. Even if they do, they put their faith in Batman's preparation and planning (and sometimes technology) to rule the day. The following addresses that (reposted):

Despite the incredibly presistant and wide-spread belief that Batman has a dozen plans up his sleeve to take out Superman, historically it's been proven otherwise again and again. Let's take some examples:

DKR - Bats, after 20 years of planning, gets his ribs broke, his fancy suit torn to shreds, suffers a heart attack, and ends up in the ground. His entire plan relies on Superman holding back and NOT simply unplugging Bruce from his lamp-post or disabling him from space (if Supes really just wanted Bruce to turn himself in, rather than getting into a dangerous fist fight)... in other words, poor writing for Supes (out of character motivation, out of character intellect/tactics), who could have undid the Bat's plan easily.

Hush - Bats breaks his hand & resorts to thug-level hostage tactics, while admiting he doesn't stand a chance. Honestly, he just gets in one good punch (that breaks his hand) shortly after, Supes smashes through the street and effortlessly lifts a car in each hand, no worse for wear. His plan needlessly puts himself at risk and relied entirely on Clark holding back/being good, which he had no logical grounds on which the make that assumption... having a "gut feeling" that Clark can resist mind control does not constitute a good plan.

Red Son - Dies. Despite all his prep, he didn't account for Superman's allies, which he has in spades and certainly on a different power-level than- say- the Bat Family. If anything is true of Supes, it's that he has many friends that would readily risk life and limb for his sake- heck, in the regular universe, Batman considers himself one of that number... any plan meant to take Supes out has to take into account his allies, friends, family, robots, pets, etc.

Babel - Years of planning on how to stop a rogue Superman... result: an expensive synthetic rock that makes Superman MORE powerful (and doesn't even prevent him from using his powers with surgical precision). Wow. Brilliant.

Superman/Batman #2 - Owned. This is in Batman's home turf, the ideal situation to combat Superman and to enact all the theoretical plans his fans have long believed he has against a rogue Superman... but the result? Bruce isn't even Future Supes's target yet he's a breath away from death if not for a save from present-day Supes.

Lex Luthor:Man of Steel - Batman with kryptonite and prep, defeated handily by Superman. Arguably one of the most realistic portrayals of how Supes could still defeat Batman without instantly killing him regardless of Bat-prep.

Superman: King of The World - Batman with prep and kryptonite fails to stop Superman from being able to crush his throat... only with the intervention of Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter is Supes stopped. Here we see danger of Superman with limited prep, the legions of his similarly powered Superman robots.

Sacrifice - Again, Batman, king of protocols, the man entrusted with the Kryptonite ring as a symbol of trust and the express responsibility of stopping Superman should he go rogue by Superman himself... finds himself in said situation and instead of pulling out "always prepared anti-Supes plan" finds himself beaten to near death saved only by the Plot Gods.

Infinite Crisis - After the last beating, you'd think Batman would create more comprehensive plans for taking out Superman and/or Superman-class enemies. Granted Kal-L is probably levels above them, but in terms of Anti-SuperBrick Planning, once again, Bruce fails... his entire defense the Kryptonite ring. Even if it were Kal-El and not Kal-L, it's highly questionable whether the ring alone would have been able to stop a motivated rogue Superman considering Supes has wielded the ring himself when fighting other Super-persons. If Batman were truly the master of planning and prep, this certainly should have been taken into consideration.

Final score: Bat Plans Zip; Supes nine of nine.

The only cases where Batman has been able to possibly get a leg up on Supes are when he has acted like a villain and held hostages or lead an assault against an unsuspecting Supes- hardly a feat (consider: who amongst us, with Batman's fortune and training, intimate knowledge of Superman as an ally, and even express consent from said target, WOULDN'T be able to come up with an attack plan against an unsuspecting Supes?). In any case where Supes has had the opportunity to fight back he has either won or been defeated by bad writing.

Aliantha · 06-01-2007, 06:24 AM

You're arguing about two grown men who aren't smart enough to put their undies on the inside of their pants.

Beestie · 06-01-2007, 07:27 AM

OK. I think we have this one figured out. Let's move on to more important questions like....

Catwoman vs. Wonderwoman.

Wonderwoman sports a boomerang.

Catwoman sports a whip.

Gotta go with Catwoman. Meowwwww.

Aliantha · 06-01-2007, 07:29 AM

Well wonderwoman wears her undies on the outside too, so I'll vote for catwoman, although I think she has the same problem but at least has the sense to make her undies the same colour as her outers.

Rexmons · 06-01-2007, 08:01 AM

crimson i think the fight would be equal to a human fighting a grizzly bear, obviously if it's just the two of them without any special weapons or preporation the grizzly would win, but humans being the sly creatures they are, would prepare and more importantly, adapt.

as for WW vs CW, i think i might have to go with WW. you can't really comapre wonder woman with superman and catwoman with batman cause wonder woman seems more street smart and mean than superman and catwoman isnt as smart as batman.

Aliantha · 06-01-2007, 08:04 AM

catwoman isnt as smart as batman

Yeah but that's just cause she's a girl. If she were a boy she'd be smarter.

Rexmons · 06-01-2007, 08:16 AM

it has nothing to do with that, batman is "the worlds greatest detective" his mind IS his super power, catwoman is some crazy bitch who's into bondage it's like comparing apples and and tiny Einsteins shaped like apples. granted they both share a dark side but the similarities end there.

Happy Monkey · 06-01-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie

Catwoman vs. Wonderwoman.

Wonderwoman sports a boomerang.

Catwoman sports a whip.

Wonderwoman has a lasso.

BigV · 06-01-2007, 05:50 PM

Sadism vs bondage... remind me who the good guys are in this one again?

DucksNuts · 06-02-2007, 06:21 AM

Catwoman doesnt wear underwear Ali. Theres no VPL or any other line.

Catwoman would kick WWs arse coz shes heaps sexier

Shawnee123 · 06-02-2007, 10:02 AM

I gotta say, I'm with Wonderwoman on this one. I love cats and all, but catwoman has been done to death. This might just be because the TV show Wonderwoman was on when I was 11-ish, and I thought she was the coolest!

Weird, since I'm all about the batman.

Now, who do you think would have better kids:

Batman and Catwoman
Batman and Wonderwoman
Superman and Catwoman
Superman and Wonderwoman

?

Cyclefrance · 06-02-2007, 11:09 AM

No, not even in the depths of airport lounge apathy, can I get heavily into this one (although I am warming to the injection of some female competition -all this male pitched against male is just all tooooo 1980's Rambo, darling).

Comic boyhood days (those lazy, hazy 1950's) were so poorly supported in the UK anyway. While you were treated to color-laden DC adventures, we had to put up with the black and white stuff involving the likes of Captain Marvel and his inspiringly amazing transformation codeword 'Kimota!' (come on writers - surely you could have done better than 'atomic' written backwards - whose fag (that's cigarette to Americans - well, maybe not on second thoughts...) packet were you borrowing that day?)

Catwoman gets my vote BTW - any costume with Miss Pfeiffer inside it has to be way out front of the opposition

Aliantha · 06-02-2007, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DucksNuts

Catwoman doesnt wear underwear Ali. Theres no VPL or any other line.

Catwoman would kick WWs arse coz shes heaps sexier

Doesn't WW wear a pair of sports pants over the top of her stockings? I'm pretty sure she's wearing pantyhose under those red undies of hers.

DucksNuts · 06-03-2007, 01:02 AM

CATWOMAN!!! WW wears her jocks on the outside like the dweeb, that is why I reckon CW would win.

Its also, why Batman would kick Superman's tight buns

Aliantha · 06-03-2007, 01:05 AM

OH yes, well catwoman wears a 'catsuit'.

Very sexy looking. Wish I could wear a catsuit and not look like a dumpling. lol

06-01-2007, 12:51 AM	#31
Crimson Ghost Larger than life and twice as ugly. Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,264	The original question is - Batman -vs- Superman No statement of the conditions of the fight, weapons allowed, or any mitigating factors. On this basis - Bare Knuckle Fight - No Weapons Allowed Winner - Superman Superman has strength, speed, and flight, just to name a few, to his advantage. No to mention Laser-vision™. He would pound the shit out of Bats. However - No Holds Barred - Winner - Batman Batman has no problem lying, cheating, stealing or killing, if he feels that it is in his best interests. Superman won't do that because of his "moral code". ------- From http://www.bluetights.net/theplanet/...96&postcount=5 ------- When people say: "Batman can kick Superman's ass" they really mean one of three things: 1. I like Batman more and think he can do anything. 2. I think Batman can win a one-sided battle where he's prepared and Superman isn't; and I've read comics like that. 3. I think Batman can beat Superman under specific circumstances, but all things being equal, Superman will almost always win. With Case 1, there's no arguing with them. With Case 3, I think the individual is reasonable enough and there's no need to force them to say Superman will ALWAYS win unless we're suffering from a bit of Case 1 ourselves, but with a Superman bent. I think a mixture of Case 2 and a little bit of 1 is the predominant viewpoint of people who say it. The thing is, they typically don't acknowledge the inequality in preparation or technology... it's almost always a contrived circumstance to bring about a Bat-victory by the skin of Bruce's teeth. Even if they do, they put their faith in Batman's preparation and planning (and sometimes technology) to rule the day. The following addresses that (reposted): Despite the incredibly presistant and wide-spread belief that Batman has a dozen plans up his sleeve to take out Superman, historically it's been proven otherwise again and again. Let's take some examples: DKR - Bats, after 20 years of planning, gets his ribs broke, his fancy suit torn to shreds, suffers a heart attack, and ends up in the ground. His entire plan relies on Superman holding back and NOT simply unplugging Bruce from his lamp-post or disabling him from space (if Supes really just wanted Bruce to turn himself in, rather than getting into a dangerous fist fight)... in other words, poor writing for Supes (out of character motivation, out of character intellect/tactics), who could have undid the Bat's plan easily. Hush - Bats breaks his hand & resorts to thug-level hostage tactics, while admiting he doesn't stand a chance. Honestly, he just gets in one good punch (that breaks his hand) shortly after, Supes smashes through the street and effortlessly lifts a car in each hand, no worse for wear. His plan needlessly puts himself at risk and relied entirely on Clark holding back/being good, which he had no logical grounds on which the make that assumption... having a "gut feeling" that Clark can resist mind control does not constitute a good plan. Red Son - Dies. Despite all his prep, he didn't account for Superman's allies, which he has in spades and certainly on a different power-level than- say- the Bat Family. If anything is true of Supes, it's that he has many friends that would readily risk life and limb for his sake- heck, in the regular universe, Batman considers himself one of that number... any plan meant to take Supes out has to take into account his allies, friends, family, robots, pets, etc. Babel - Years of planning on how to stop a rogue Superman... result: an expensive synthetic rock that makes Superman MORE powerful (and doesn't even prevent him from using his powers with surgical precision). Wow. Brilliant. Superman/Batman #2 - Owned. This is in Batman's home turf, the ideal situation to combat Superman and to enact all the theoretical plans his fans have long believed he has against a rogue Superman... but the result? Bruce isn't even Future Supes's target yet he's a breath away from death if not for a save from present-day Supes. Lex Luthor:Man of Steel - Batman with kryptonite and prep, defeated handily by Superman. Arguably one of the most realistic portrayals of how Supes could still defeat Batman without instantly killing him regardless of Bat-prep. Superman: King of The World - Batman with prep and kryptonite fails to stop Superman from being able to crush his throat... only with the intervention of Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter is Supes stopped. Here we see danger of Superman with limited prep, the legions of his similarly powered Superman robots. Sacrifice - Again, Batman, king of protocols, the man entrusted with the Kryptonite ring as a symbol of trust and the express responsibility of stopping Superman should he go rogue by Superman himself... finds himself in said situation and instead of pulling out "always prepared anti-Supes plan" finds himself beaten to near death saved only by the Plot Gods. Infinite Crisis - After the last beating, you'd think Batman would create more comprehensive plans for taking out Superman and/or Superman-class enemies. Granted Kal-L is probably levels above them, but in terms of Anti-SuperBrick Planning, once again, Bruce fails... his entire defense the Kryptonite ring. Even if it were Kal-El and not Kal-L, it's highly questionable whether the ring alone would have been able to stop a motivated rogue Superman considering Supes has wielded the ring himself when fighting other Super-persons. If Batman were truly the master of planning and prep, this certainly should have been taken into consideration. Final score: Bat Plans Zip; Supes nine of nine. The only cases where Batman has been able to possibly get a leg up on Supes are when he has acted like a villain and held hostages or lead an assault against an unsuspecting Supes- hardly a feat (consider: who amongst us, with Batman's fortune and training, intimate knowledge of Superman as an ally, and even express consent from said target, WOULDN'T be able to come up with an attack plan against an unsuspecting Supes?). In any case where Supes has had the opportunity to fight back he has either won or been defeated by bad writing. __________________ We must all go through a rite of passage. It must be physical, it must be painful, and it must leave a mark. I have no knowledge of the events which you are describing, and if I did have knowledge of them, I would be unable to discuss them with you now or at any future period. Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years

06-01-2007, 06:24 AM	#32
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	You're arguing about two grown men who aren't smart enough to put their undies on the inside of their pants. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

06-01-2007, 07:27 AM	#33
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	OK. I think we have this one figured out. Let's move on to more important questions like.... Catwoman vs. Wonderwoman. Wonderwoman sports a boomerang. Catwoman sports a whip. Gotta go with Catwoman. Meowwwww. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

06-01-2007, 07:29 AM	#34
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Well wonderwoman wears her undies on the outside too, so I'll vote for catwoman, although I think she has the same problem but at least has the sense to make her undies the same colour as her outers. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

06-01-2007, 08:01 AM	#35
Rexmons - Kavkaz United - Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 613	crimson i think the fight would be equal to a human fighting a grizzly bear, obviously if it's just the two of them without any special weapons or preporation the grizzly would win, but humans being the sly creatures they are, would prepare and more importantly, adapt. as for WW vs CW, i think i might have to go with WW. you can't really comapre wonder woman with superman and catwoman with batman cause wonder woman seems more street smart and mean than superman and catwoman isnt as smart as batman. __________________ "Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me..."

06-01-2007, 08:04 AM	#36
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	catwoman isnt as smart as batman Yeah but that's just cause she's a girl. If she were a boy she'd be smarter. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

06-01-2007, 08:16 AM	#37
Rexmons - Kavkaz United - Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 613	it has nothing to do with that, batman is "the worlds greatest detective" his mind IS his super power, catwoman is some crazy bitch who's into bondage it's like comparing apples and and tiny Einsteins shaped like apples. granted they both share a dark side but the similarities end there. __________________ "Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me..."

06-01-2007, 05:50 PM	#39
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	Sadism vs bondage... remind me who the good guys are in this one again? __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

06-02-2007, 06:21 AM	#40
DucksNuts Bitchy Little Brat Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 5,067	Catwoman doesnt wear underwear Ali. Theres no VPL or any other line. Catwoman would kick WWs arse coz shes heaps sexier

06-02-2007, 10:02 AM	#41
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I gotta say, I'm with Wonderwoman on this one. I love cats and all, but catwoman has been done to death. This might just be because the TV show Wonderwoman was on when I was 11-ish, and I thought she was the coolest! Weird, since I'm all about the batman. Now, who do you think would have better kids: Batman and Catwoman Batman and Wonderwoman Superman and Catwoman Superman and Wonderwoman ? __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

06-02-2007, 11:09 AM	#42
Cyclefrance Pump my ride! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Deep countryside of Surrey , England Posts: 1,890	No, not even in the depths of airport lounge apathy, can I get heavily into this one (although I am warming to the injection of some female competition -all this male pitched against male is just all tooooo 1980's Rambo, darling). Comic boyhood days (those lazy, hazy 1950's) were so poorly supported in the UK anyway. While you were treated to color-laden DC adventures, we had to put up with the black and white stuff involving the likes of Captain Marvel and his inspiringly amazing transformation codeword 'Kimota!' (come on writers - surely you could have done better than 'atomic' written backwards - whose fag (that's cigarette to Americans - well, maybe not on second thoughts...) packet were you borrowing that day?) Catwoman gets my vote BTW - any costume with Miss Pfeiffer inside it has to be way out front of the opposition __________________ Always sufficient hills - never sufficient gears

06-03-2007, 01:02 AM	#44
DucksNuts Bitchy Little Brat Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 5,067	CATWOMAN!!! WW wears her jocks on the outside like the dweeb, that is why I reckon CW would win. Its also, why Batman would kick Superman's tight buns Last edited by DucksNuts; 06-03-2007 at 01:35 AM.

06-03-2007, 01:05 AM	#45
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	OH yes, well catwoman wears a 'catsuit'. Very sexy looking. Wish I could wear a catsuit and not look like a dumpling. lol __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

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