The PH45 doesn't like Capitalism thread - Page 2

Griff · 07-06-2007, 06:44 AM

He is apparently at that speed bump between theory and practice. It can be hard on the suspension.

Urbane Guerrilla · 07-11-2007, 02:00 AM

Ka-Wongga!!

Just got a droopy exhaust pipe fixed -- again. It's a weak design point in 1980s VW Jettas, as the rubber isolation-suspension rings deteriorate from the heat of the exhaust pipe and eventually break.

Speed bumps are rough on low-hangin' exhaust systems too. Scrape!

07-15-2007, 04:15 AM

So funny Pierce you use Maslow's in an anti-capitalism discussion. It is one of the first things you learn in management courses to help you control your staff and make them happier and more productive (which makes them happy).

07-15-2007, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

But what if people decide to get high all day?

This is the gut problem with all charity: if you find that you suddenly CAN provide "security of body, of employment, of resources, of morality, of the family, of health, of property" -- let's say, from some Magic Genie Lamp and not off the shoulders of productive people -- then what about those people who decide, at that point, to get drunk/high/tripped out all day and make no effort whatsoever? I mean, godblessum, I want to hang out with them, but they will stop being productive. If you've solved the lower levels of their hierarchy of needs, they have no incentive, practically by definition. And the loss of their productive work will decrease your New Golden Society's productivity by about half... probably crushing its Magic Genie Lamp in the process.

(sidebar: some people will not become productive human beings until they lose some or all of the bottom tier hierarchy. And some will not even if they do hit that level. That's just life.)

Of course in your fantasy world there are no people who can't work.
Or are you one of those that thinks that someone will "magically appear and just take care of them all out of the goodness of their hearts"?

Undertoad · 07-15-2007, 08:47 AM

Not everything is about you buddy, always take the context of the thread.

07-15-2007, 06:04 PM

It was a question.
I don't see a first-person reference.

DanaC · 07-15-2007, 07:41 PM

It's a valid question. I also would like to know: what about those who are unable to work?

Quote:

(sidebar: some people will not become productive human beings until they lose some or all of the bottom tier hierarchy. And some will not even if they do hit that level. That's just life.)

What constitutes, in your view, a productive human being?

Undertoad · 07-15-2007, 08:32 PM

The goal, I think, should be to produce more than you consume in a lifetime. Not so much in monetary assets, but in everything.

07-16-2007, 03:33 AM

Aaaannnnd we euthanize the ones who can't?

DanaC · 07-16-2007, 05:46 AM

Quote:

The goal, I think, should be to produce more than you consume in a lifetime. Not so much in monetary assets, but in everything.

What about some of the older communities on the planet who 'produce' very little in our terms and consume at subsistence levels (such as the Kalahari bushmen). Are they 'productive human beings'?

Undertoad · 07-16-2007, 07:58 AM

Yes.

Undertoad · 07-16-2007, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Aaaannnnd we euthanize the ones who can't?

I beg of you, please take the context from the thread.

TheMercenary · 07-16-2007, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

That is why I am against the idea that "money = happiness" but I also recgonize that you need money in today's society to become physical secure and then you can look for happiness (emotional security).

That is because you have not really made any yet to see how happy you can be and how happy you can make those around you.

07-17-2007, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I beg of you, please take the context from the thread.

Does that mean there is no place for a straight-forward, practical question?
These people exist, the Libertarian ideal has no place for them... as a Libertarian (not a disabled man) I too had to come to terms with this MISTAKE in the system presented by those who are purists.

Undertoad · 07-17-2007, 08:15 AM

Alrighty then, let's address it;

Not counting youth or elderly, the number of people who can't work are vastly outnumbered by the number of people who, given a free ride, would not work.

A culture that motivates people to work can easily produce enough to give a free ride to those who can't work, whether that free ride is presented by government or by private charity.

A culture that does not motivate people to work, fails FIRST for people who can't work.

Charity in productive societies, whether public or private, is hundreds of times greater than in unproductive ones.

07-06-2007, 06:44 AM	#16
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	He is apparently at that speed bump between theory and practice. It can be hard on the suspension. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

07-11-2007, 02:00 AM	#17
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Ka-Wongga!! Just got a droopy exhaust pipe fixed -- again. It's a weak design point in 1980s VW Jettas, as the rubber isolation-suspension rings deteriorate from the heat of the exhaust pipe and eventually break. Speed bumps are rough on low-hangin' exhaust systems too. Scrape! __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

07-15-2007, 04:15 AM	#18
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	*So funny* Pierce you use Maslow's in an anti-capitalism discussion. It is one of the first things you learn in management courses to help you control your staff and make them happier and more productive (which makes them happy). Last edited by rkzenrage; 07-15-2007 at 04:22 AM.

07-15-2007, 08:47 AM	#20
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Not everything is about you buddy, always take the context of the thread.

07-15-2007, 06:04 PM	#21
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	It was a question. I don't see a first-person reference.

07-15-2007, 08:32 PM	#23
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	The goal, I think, should be to produce more than you consume in a lifetime. Not so much in monetary assets, but in everything.

07-16-2007, 03:33 AM	#24
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Aaaannnnd we euthanize the ones who can't?

07-16-2007, 07:58 AM	#26
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Yes.

07-17-2007, 08:15 AM	#30
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Alrighty then, let's address it; Not counting youth or elderly, the number of people who can't work are vastly outnumbered by the number of people who, given a free ride, would not work. A culture that motivates people to work can easily produce enough to give a free ride to those who can't work, whether that free ride is presented by government or by private charity. A culture that does not motivate people to work, fails FIRST for people who can't work. Charity in productive societies, whether public or private, is hundreds of times greater than in unproductive ones.

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